A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#131

Post by smokeyj » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #111

smokeyj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've realized this, but HN is religiously against crypto and anything that rhymes with it. Like, irrationally mad. If you want to explore the utility of crypto go check out different online communities that focus on that, some decent ones on reddit. The level of discussion on HN is usually "crypto baaad, centralized goood". As an economist I'm sure you expect more. Unless you want those ideas reinfo…

I think you are conflating bad with unjustified. They aren’t the same but can appear similarly themed. HN is skeptical of the utility and validity of crypto.

That's what I thought too! But no - HN is against crypto at the moral level. One day the almighty father Paul Krugman declared crypto as thought-crime, and ever since, progressives have dutifully towed that line. It's tiring.

I think they subconsciously see it as an attack on state-sovereignty or something like that. The ability to tax and redistribute. That's just me reading between the lines.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#132

Post by lixtra » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

ovi256 wrote: post #110

lixtra wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banks are highly regulated and risk averse. They won’t transfer 100 USD to some country when it takes them more than some percentage of the transfer to do compliance for it. So the transfer is legal but banks can not do it compliant and efficient. I know of Ukrainian developers being paid in ETH for that reason. Adult cam models in some countries are another example.

>to do compliance for it FWIW, complianceless payments are dejure illegal by definition. So any economic activity being made possible by them is roadkill of the current regulatory environment, legally speaking. A nice example of Bastiat's "That which is not seen".

This is just wrong. A kiosk merchant may accept cash payments legally. If she wants to accept cards she has to go through the stricter compliance rules of the card processors. Same applies for crypto.

A transaction does not become illegal just because some class of players do not want to become part of it.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#133

Post by companyhen » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

_Kristijan_ wrote: post #47

A "faster, more efficient cryptocurrency" is already in productive operation since 2015. Called "Nano" https://nano.org/en

What I know of it is Nano uses a DAG rather than Blockchain, similar to IOTA's tangle

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#134

Post by SideburnsOfDoom » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #82

malloreon wrote: post #16

I have long wondered how cryptocurrency fans would answer the question: ‘Would you be happy if the crypto-utopia you bring up happens in the next 10 years, and all value is stored/transacted through a cryptocurrency, but it was a coin that you do not possess now, nor could you transfer any of you current currencies into it?’ Say tomorrow someone releases the one true coin, but no one notices. All other cryptocurrenci…

How do you think bitcoin started ? You'd had to be crazy to believe in it 9 years ago, and spend time and energy in the community, nlt to lention monney, to foster the project. My family and friends said i was stupid, utopist, being conned, wasting my time, and so lany things. Btc was banana money at first, and only people believing it would be a great thing as a concept made it work. We didn't expect to make banks,…

> My family and friends said i was stupid, utopist, being conned, wasting my time, and so lany things. ... All great things start like that.

"But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

-- Carl Sagan

https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/carl_sagan_163043

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#135

Post by jayd16 » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:20 PM UTC

beaner wrote: post #124

skohan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story of cryptocurrency over the past couple years has been a really interesting case-study in the application of Libertarian principals. It's interesting how something which was built on the idea of decentralization by design has given way to a clear power structure, where those who have the sway to control the fate of the technology have largely used it to pursue their own personal enrichment over the health an…

> those who have the sway to control the fate of the technology have largely used it to pursue their own personal enrichment over the health and success of the system as a whole You say this like it's a fact but I feel like it's the opposite. There aren't many compelling examples of this. And to the extent that there are, they exist in a competitive market and their fate is determined by users and investors, who weig…

What decentralization of power has occurred in a way that significantly different than any other market? Exchanges presumably control most of the coin. Pump and dumps seem to been extremely likely.

It might not be worse but IMO it hasn't proven to be better.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#136

Post by sowbug » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

malloreon wrote: post #16

I have long wondered how cryptocurrency fans would answer the question: ‘Would you be happy if the crypto-utopia you bring up happens in the next 10 years, and all value is stored/transacted through a cryptocurrency, but it was a coin that you do not possess now, nor could you transfer any of you current currencies into it?’ Say tomorrow someone releases the one true coin, but no one notices. All other cryptocurrenci…

[Using U.S. law as a convenient set of terms of art, not to be geocentric.]

The internet is a technical embodiment of the First Amendment (freedom of speech, freedom of press, freedom of religion, right of peaceable assembly, right to complain about the government).

Bitcoin is a technical embodiment of some of the Fifth Amendment (due process -- protection against deprivation of property, and even life/liberty if you accept the unremarkable proposition that it's hard to live freely if you can't buy anything).

Having these technical protections in place are important regardless of their impact on or benefit to any one person.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#137

Post by gregknicholson » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

hippich wrote: post #129

malloreon wrote: post #16

I have long wondered how cryptocurrency fans would answer the question: ‘Would you be happy if the crypto-utopia you bring up happens in the next 10 years, and all value is stored/transacted through a cryptocurrency, but it was a coin that you do not possess now, nor could you transfer any of you current currencies into it?’ Say tomorrow someone releases the one true coin, but no one notices. All other cryptocurrenci…

Outside of what others replied to you with, there is another aspect I find about it, that truly resonates and excites me, despite not being a holder. To me, Bitcoin is also a large experiment where laws and rules are written as open source code, which any1 code fork and run their own version of it, or any1 can submit a proposal for. This is what traditionally legal system with the power of violence used to deal with…

I don't accept this assessment of how Bitcoin's consensus fundamentally works. Yes, anyone can fork the code, but consensus comes only when the miners choose a fork.

As far as I can see, there's no significant incentive to mine other than money, so miners want money, so you can persuade them with money.

The "consensus" is fundamentally an auction.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#138

Post by sodafountan » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #64

haolez wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if it means that my government cannot create inflation anymore.

Why do you think moderate inflation is bad?

Because moderate inflation can very easily turn into high inflation or out of control inflation if left up to imperfect humans.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#139

Post by orthecreedence » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

pepesza wrote: post #108

DenisM wrote: post #87

This gets asked often, but in case something changed recently - what are the use cases of cryptocurrencies that are not: - Attempts to side-step the law (however misguided the law is) - Trivial to do using a typical centralized database (e.g. Federal Reserver or VISA) - Tantamount to waiting for a greater fool to buy out the current players I am not looking for answers of the form "well whenever you want to avoid a t…

Visa is very expensive. How about that?

And extremely censorious.

Re: A faster, more efficient cryptocurrency

#140

Post by beefield » Mon, Feb 18, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

sh4rk wrote: post #42

malloreon wrote: post #16

I have long wondered how cryptocurrency fans would answer the question: ‘Would you be happy if the crypto-utopia you bring up happens in the next 10 years, and all value is stored/transacted through a cryptocurrency, but it was a coin that you do not possess now, nor could you transfer any of you current currencies into it?’ Say tomorrow someone releases the one true coin, but no one notices. All other cryptocurrenci…

Good question. Definitely yes. Why would I pay middlemen (banks) when there is no need to? Also why would I trust them, when there is no need to?

> Why would I pay middlemen (banks) when there is no need to? Also why would I trust them, when there is no need to?

Payments are only relative small function of financial sector. Much more important is to act in credit markets, i.e take deposits and issue loans. How did you think that crypto removes need for fees (interest rate) and trust in those applications?