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The Path Amazon Rejected

nytimes.com

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Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#41

Post by objektif »

tracer4201 wrote: post #16

I don't understand the outrage towards Amazon. 1. No one forced any of these states/cities to join this bidding contest. They willingly participated. "How dare Amazon put cities against one another in a bidding war?!" Yeah, I put five dealers against one another in a bidding war to get my business the last time I shopped for a car. Amazon can do the same thing. 2. "Jeff Bezos doesn't need our tax breaks!" I bet he do…

I also wanted AMZN to come to the city. Yes you are right its doing whats best for them by taking advantage of the tax code. However you can’t just say that the system is broken and Amazon is just a bystander taking advantage of it. Amazon is partly responsible, through lobbying, for why the system is broken.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#42

Post by Spooky23 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #15
blihp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not outrage, it's spin. He represents one of the two parties that was prepared to engage in a deal that ordinary people get very angry about. (i.e. massive corporate tax breaks) So if the media plays along with the spin, he will succeed in shifting a lot of the outrage away from his administration and on to Amazon.

Well, in fairness, the outrage wouldn't be on his administration in any case. One thing he's conveniently not mentioning is that he was opposed to giving Amazon any tax breaks or other concessions from the start. The state politicians overruled him. Although his position, I suppose, is that Amazon should move to NYC, without any concessions. Which is not altogether off the wall. That's how it should work for ALL comp…

Nonsense. If he was against the deal, he wouldn’t have mended fences to be a face of it.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#43

Post by AJ007 »

crumpets wrote: post #22
bilbo0s wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in fairness, the outrage wouldn't be on his administration in any case. One thing he's conveniently not mentioning is that he was opposed to giving Amazon any tax breaks or other concessions from the start. The state politicians overruled him. Although his position, I suppose, is that Amazon should move to NYC, without any concessions. Which is not altogether off the wall. That's how it should work for ALL comp…

>Corporate welfare is out of hand in this country. That's certainly one view. Another is that these are just breaks on excessive taxes by one government to compete with other governments that have sane corporate taxes in the first place. I don't understand how tax reductions are considered welfare. It's not money the government has already being passed out to Amazon. The government would have still made money in this…

It’s unfair to the companies that don’t get the tax breaks. Politically, I’m not sure having an environment where special rules are granted or exempted by government officials on a selective basis is healthy either.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#44

Post by nicoburns »

trikonasana wrote: post #23
yalogin wrote: post #3

Amazon screwed up when they made choosing a place into a reality contest. That came off as egotistical and people took notice. They brought the attention on to themselves. I think they finally realized that walking out of it and letting it die down is the best way going forward.

That seems to be the popular opinion (that this is Amazon's fault) but I disagree. Amazon coming to LIC would have been a net benefit for everyone. 25k jobs that pay a minimum wage of $15/hour...who would reject that? Sure they get a $3b tax break, but they would have paid far more than that in state taxes over the long term. The people on the city council did not represent the the best interest of the citizens, inst…

> Amazon coming to LIC would have been a net benefit for everyone.

Only in NYC, if you average over the whole country, far more poeple benefit if amazon don't get massive unfair tax breaks.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#45

Post by bilbo0s »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
tracer4201 wrote: post #16

I don't understand the outrage towards Amazon. 1. No one forced any of these states/cities to join this bidding contest. They willingly participated. "How dare Amazon put cities against one another in a bidding war?!" Yeah, I put five dealers against one another in a bidding war to get my business the last time I shopped for a car. Amazon can do the same thing. 2. "Jeff Bezos doesn't need our tax breaks!" I bet he do…

"You have a company taking advantage of the perfectly legal rules that the system set up. OH GAWD better grab pitchforks." People aren't allowed to be upset about something just because it's not illegal?

Be mad...

at the people who made it, "not illegal".

That's not Amazon. The anger, to the extent that it's justified, is misplaced.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#46

Post by jedberg »

Why would Amazon try to make things right in NYC, when they can just go somewhere else that welcomes them with open arms and no complaints? NYC didn't offer them anything of particularly great value that they couldn't get elsewhere. I wish they were being better about helping the communities they are moving into, but I can see why they would just leave.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#47

Post by boron1006 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
tracer4201 wrote: post #16

I don't understand the outrage towards Amazon. 1. No one forced any of these states/cities to join this bidding contest. They willingly participated. "How dare Amazon put cities against one another in a bidding war?!" Yeah, I put five dealers against one another in a bidding war to get my business the last time I shopped for a car. Amazon can do the same thing. 2. "Jeff Bezos doesn't need our tax breaks!" I bet he do…

"You have a company taking advantage of the perfectly legal rules that the system set up. OH GAWD better grab pitchforks." People aren't allowed to be upset about something just because it's not illegal?

Most of the tax breaks Amazon used are open for pretty much any company, and have been around for a very long time. But no one seems to want to repeal or fix these laws. In all of this, I haven't seen a single person talk about them. You can't agree to a set of rules then complain when someone actually follows them.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#48

Post by Pyxl101 »

my_usernam3 wrote: post #29
crumpets wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Corporate welfare is out of hand in this country. That's certainly one view. Another is that these are just breaks on excessive taxes by one government to compete with other governments that have sane corporate taxes in the first place. I don't understand how tax reductions are considered welfare. It's not money the government has already being passed out to Amazon. The government would have still made money in this…

But why does amazon get to pay less than existing businesses, unfair tax laws or not?

Amazon would not pay less NYC tax than other businesses. The NYC tax breaks that Amazon was planning to take advantage of are open to every company that qualifies:

https://www.nycedc.com/program/relocation-and-employment-ass...

https://www.nycedc.com/program/industrial-commercial-abateme...

These programs are designed to encourage specific behavior, like companies moving to and making capital investments in particular areas of the city. Any company that does so qualified for a formulaic tax break. NYC did not offer any tax breaks to Amazon beyond its existing incentive programs.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#49

Post by slowmovintarget »

_bxg1 wrote: post #28
tracer4201 wrote: post #16

I don't understand the outrage towards Amazon. 1. No one forced any of these states/cities to join this bidding contest. They willingly participated. "How dare Amazon put cities against one another in a bidding war?!" Yeah, I put five dealers against one another in a bidding war to get my business the last time I shopped for a car. Amazon can do the same thing. 2. "Jeff Bezos doesn't need our tax breaks!" I bet he do…

"You have a company taking advantage of the perfectly legal rules that the system set up. OH GAWD better grab pitchforks." People aren't allowed to be upset about something just because it's not illegal?

Reality doesn't allow people to have it both ways. Either be upset that the system incentivizes the behavior, or be upset that the incentives failed.

In both of those cases, the blame lies at the feet of the elected officials. Granted, the implication of that is the blame lies at the feet of those who cast the ballots (George Carlin, we miss you). People always have trouble blaming themselves.

Corporations are jello. They take the shape of the mold they sit in. If they get big enough, the mold is the whole world's economy.

Re: The Path Amazon Rejected

#50

Post by openloop »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #36
tracer4201 wrote: post #16

I don't understand the outrage towards Amazon. 1. No one forced any of these states/cities to join this bidding contest. They willingly participated. "How dare Amazon put cities against one another in a bidding war?!" Yeah, I put five dealers against one another in a bidding war to get my business the last time I shopped for a car. Amazon can do the same thing. 2. "Jeff Bezos doesn't need our tax breaks!" I bet he do…

It is exploitative. Any company founded in the US is going to use the resources US provides - roads, trade & economic power, the USPS, the talent pool etc for Amazon. When their success is built on that foundation, they owe it to the government (& taxpayers) to return the favor and show some goodwill. Instead, taxpayers subsidize them when they're growing, then they want to cheat as much as legally possible on their…

In a nutshell. To add insult to injury look at the major shareholders. They are tied to banks that are helping to destroy the global economy as a result of said investment. This company is the result of bankers whose primary function is to scalp real wage earners. Once another major competitor looks good to these fraudsters they’ll dump Amazon like it’s bad news too.
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