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I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

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Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#51

Post by zokier »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #17

I'm disappointed that this article is no different from all the other articles on keyboard layouts that I've ever encountered and ignores non-English uses. Obviously, a post written in English has no good reason describing a Norwegian-specific alternative to QWERTY, but it still manages to ignore half of the population of English-speaking people by not taking into account using multiple languages on the same keyboard…

The Deskthority list linked in sibling thread lists Norwegian, French, and German alternative layouts:

https://deskthority.net/wiki/Alternative_keyboard_layouts

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#53

Post by whack »

jules wrote: post #45
whack wrote: post #35

On a similar note, let me say something which is sure to be controversial/unpopular on HN. I type with 2-3 fingers, and I can tell you that the "peckers" like me aren't missing out on much either. I can consistently type at 60-70 wpm, and that's after adjusting for typos. A big part of that comes down to me having memorized the keyboard layout, and not having to look at the keyboard at all while typing. I've also nev…

It's not just about typing speed, it's about comfort. Touch typing on Colemak (and presumably Dvorak) feels much better and is less tiring than pecking. What you mention is indeed the biggest advantage of touch typing: your hands are in a known position relative to the keyboard, so you don't have to look or think to type. How do you keep your hands in a fixed position if you only use 2-3 fingers?

> How do you keep your hands in a fixed position if you only use 2-3 fingers?

They don't stay in a fixed position. They are constantly moving around the keyboard. I can still do this without having to think or look at the keyboard. I can understand why/how this would slow down my typing speed, but I can still maintain 60-70 wpm despite this.

> it's about comfort

My hands have never felt uncomfortable when they are moving about slightly. Why should they? I can walk for hours and feel totally relaxed - in fact, that actually feels better than standing still for 15 minutes.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#54

Post by mnm1 »

Pimpus wrote: post #47
xiii1408 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can type at 120 WPM, and it's not all that useful. I'd gladly halve my typing speed if it meant avoiding the occasional bout of RSI.

> RSI Read the Mind-Body Prescription, you might be surprised at what you learn. RSI is not something we should be afraid of in this day and age, with everything we know about the human organism.

Bullshit. That might work for some but in no way is it a cure or preventative measure for RSI for everyone. RSI is a real concern and often is caused by actual physical issues that need to be dealt with.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#55

Post by mnm1 »

whack wrote: post #35

On a similar note, let me say something which is sure to be controversial/unpopular on HN. I type with 2-3 fingers, and I can tell you that the "peckers" like me aren't missing out on much either. I can consistently type at 60-70 wpm, and that's after adjusting for typos. A big part of that comes down to me having memorized the keyboard layout, and not having to look at the keyboard at all while typing. I've also nev…

I truly wish I never learned to touch type. The RSI issues are simply not worth it. I don't need to type fast to create software. That includes writing emails and such. I've adapted now to a slower workflow where I spend a lot more time thinking and a lot less with my hands on the keyboard/mouse and productivity has mostly stayed the same.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#56

Post by jules »

whack wrote: post #53
jules wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about typing speed, it's about comfort. Touch typing on Colemak (and presumably Dvorak) feels much better and is less tiring than pecking. What you mention is indeed the biggest advantage of touch typing: your hands are in a known position relative to the keyboard, so you don't have to look or think to type. How do you keep your hands in a fixed position if you only use 2-3 fingers?

> How do you keep your hands in a fixed position if you only use 2-3 fingers? They don't stay in a fixed position. They are constantly moving around the keyboard. I can still do this without having to think or look at the keyboard. I can understand why/how this would slow down my typing speed, but I can still maintain 60-70 wpm despite this. > it's about comfort My hands have never felt uncomfortable when they are mo…

> They don't stay in a fixed position.

Okay, then I don't understand the point of the quote, because it is a counterargument to your style of typing.

> My hands have never felt uncomfortable when they are moving about slightly.

I used to peck, and now I don't, and I used to think that pecking was comfortable, and now I don't. The difference is night and day.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#57

Post by whack »

jules wrote: post #56
whack wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you keep your hands in a fixed position if you only use 2-3 fingers? They don't stay in a fixed position. They are constantly moving around the keyboard. I can still do this without having to think or look at the keyboard. I can understand why/how this would slow down my typing speed, but I can still maintain 60-70 wpm despite this. > it's about comfort My hands have never felt uncomfortable when they are mo…

> They don't stay in a fixed position. Okay, then I don't understand the point of the quote, because it is a counterargument to your style of typing. > My hands have never felt uncomfortable when they are moving about slightly. I used to peck, and now I don't, and I used to think that pecking was comfortable, and now I don't. The difference is night and day.

> Okay, then I don't understand the point of the quote, because it is a counterargument to your style of typing.

The quote is saying that even if someone pecks, their typing speed isn't necessarily impaired. I'm not claiming to be as advanced as other pecking-typists, but I can still achieve bursts of 80 wpm.

> I used to think that pecking was comfortable, and now I don't. The difference is night and day

My hands feel about as comfortable while typing, as they do while I'm lying down or doing nothing. I don't see how they can possibly feel any more comfortable than that.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#58

Post by beatgammit »

jamestomasino wrote: post #29

It doesn't look like anyone has yet addressed my biggest PRO for switching to Dvorak. It has pretty much healed my RSI. QWERTY had caused a huge drain on my ability to type. I was at risk for being unable to continue my work if the pain progressed. I made the admittedly-difficult switch to Dvorak and that went away almost immediately. My typing speed is on-par with what it was with QWERTY. I can type out conversation…

I have a similar anecdote, and I've decided that forcing myself to relearn typing was more important than the specific layout. I can definitely say that I was beginning to get some pain in my wrists, and since becoming competent in Dvorak, I haven't had any wrist pain.

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#59

Post by tom_ »

urbanriv wrote: post #20

I have been using Dvorak for a few years. I think learning the skill was one of the weirdest experiences I have had. I went all in and switched the keys on my Macbook to dvorak, and went all in. It can be frustrating in a way comparable to recovering from a stroke. Emails which normally take 2 min take 10+. Eventually, it gets better, you start to gain speed and typing becomes normal again. I do like it, it definitel…

J and K are next to one another? QJKXBMWVZ...

Re: I’ve used Dvorak for 10 years, and it’s not all that

#60

Post by gtrfreewifi »

mnm1 wrote: post #55
whack wrote: post #35

On a similar note, let me say something which is sure to be controversial/unpopular on HN. I type with 2-3 fingers, and I can tell you that the "peckers" like me aren't missing out on much either. I can consistently type at 60-70 wpm, and that's after adjusting for typos. A big part of that comes down to me having memorized the keyboard layout, and not having to look at the keyboard at all while typing. I've also nev…

I truly wish I never learned to touch type. The RSI issues are simply not worth it. I don't need to type fast to create software. That includes writing emails and such. I've adapted now to a slower workflow where I spend a lot more time thinking and a lot less with my hands on the keyboard/mouse and productivity has mostly stayed the same.

If you can touchtype, you have the option to spend more time thinking. RSI is generally not a symptome of touchtyping per se. Instead, there are usually some underlining issues like not actually touchtyping properly (for example too much force involved, I know nothing about you so these are not directed towards you), bad keyboard, or just generally neglecting breaks. Regards, 20+ years of daily touchtyping with zero signs of RSI (I never skip breaks which makes my eyes happier too, money is just imaginary but the one thing I really can't afford is losing my health).
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