The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic • Hacker News Board

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#61

Post by vram22 » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

varlogix wrote: post #41

garyclarke27 wrote: post #24

There is a simple natural permanent solution for this problem, just introduce an Apex predator - the majestic Jaguar. Jaguars used to inhabit the southern parts of North America - they seldom attack humans but they will happily eat snakes and alligators. They could restore health to the ecosystem, also make it more interesting, thus also benefiting the tourist industry.

"they seldom attack humans but they will happily eat snakes and alligators." This may not be a good idea. A lot of Indian towns are now facing problems of leopards attacking (and sometimes killing) humans, and these attacks have started to happen in crowded cities like Mumbai. Leopards earlier never attacked humans, but as they lost their habitat and the leopard population has grown, they now routinely attack people,…

Right. A leopard came at least once somewhere inside Pune, which is a big city, and attacked some people, IIRC. And there are many cases of leopards attacking people in smaller towns and villages, on the outskirts of them, that I have read of, in Maharashtra (state in India, in which Pune and Mumbai are) and probably in other states too.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#62

Post by vram22 » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:38 PM UTC

currymj wrote: post #57

efiecho wrote: post #51

To you that live in parts of the world that have snakes, do they affect you in any way? There are no snakes where I live, and I'm extremely uncomfortable just thinking about the possibility of one entering your home or seeing one. Imagine cleaning your garage and finding a snake curled up behind some stuff, the state of terror I would be in is out of this world.

most snakes are small and harmless. it’s not any worse than seeing a rat or a lizard. in the US the main snake everyone gets warned about is the coral snake, which has a distinctive pattern and is very poisonous.

How about rattlesnakes? I thought there are plenty of them, especially in the Western US.

Kraits can be deadly in India. I've read that sometimes you cannot even feel their bite, but their venom can kill you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_krait

The article reminded me of Romulus Whitaker:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Whitaker

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chennai_Snake_Park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madras_Crocodile_Bank_Trust

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#63

Post by sehugg » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

currymj wrote: post #57

efiecho wrote: post #51

To you that live in parts of the world that have snakes, do they affect you in any way? There are no snakes where I live, and I'm extremely uncomfortable just thinking about the possibility of one entering your home or seeing one. Imagine cleaning your garage and finding a snake curled up behind some stuff, the state of terror I would be in is out of this world.

most snakes are small and harmless. it’s not any worse than seeing a rat or a lizard. in the US the main snake everyone gets warned about is the coral snake, which has a distinctive pattern and is very poisonous.

Copperheads are bad, especially since many other species look like them. They can put you in the hospital. Avoid the triangle head.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#64

Post by chowells » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:01 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #62

currymj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most snakes are small and harmless. it’s not any worse than seeing a rat or a lizard. in the US the main snake everyone gets warned about is the coral snake, which has a distinctive pattern and is very poisonous.

How about rattlesnakes? I thought there are plenty of them, especially in the Western US. Kraits can be deadly in India. I've read that sometimes you cannot even feel their bite, but their venom can kill you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_krait The article reminded me of Romulus Whitaker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romulus_Whitaker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chennai_Snake_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…

There are rattlesnakes everywhere in areas I've lived all my life. I've never seen a live one. They do not seek human interaction. About the only way you'll get bitten by one is if you reach into a hole one is trying to sleep in such that it can't get away and thinks you're threatening it.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#65

Post by noahA » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

hackerman12345 wrote: post #49

ecocentrik wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're an predatory invasive species that's been clogging up dam gates and killing native predators like alligators. The goal, if it were even possible without causing more harm, would be eradication from that ecosystem.

Why is there value in keeping the ecosystem in a state we're familiar with? It's not like alligators were "always there" either. Animals migrate, things change, and us ensuring that the animal populations always match what they were in 1995 is hubris.

I agree with the direction of your idea but I don’t think it applies here. Invasive species are a major cause of loss of biodiversity. Typically, habitats change over a much larger timescale. If you introduce a species that’s suited for a habitat and it has no natural predators, you’re going to end up losing a lot of biodiversity as a result. Why is biodiversity important? Biodiversity gives us new opportunities for research (lots of new medical discoveries come from biodiversity), it allows an ecosystem to adapt to pressure (imagine if there’s a deadly new avian flu and you have 10 vs 100 bird species in an area, it’s a lot less likely that all birds will be wiped out in the second scenario as there’s more varied adaptations in that system that might allow the birds to survive). Change is of course natural for all ecosystems but as you lose biodiversity from things like invasive species, you lose the factors that allow an ecosystem to surmount potential extinction (extirpation?) events.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#66

Post by lostapathy » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:26 PM UTC

currymj wrote: post #57

efiecho wrote: post #51

To you that live in parts of the world that have snakes, do they affect you in any way? There are no snakes where I live, and I'm extremely uncomfortable just thinking about the possibility of one entering your home or seeing one. Imagine cleaning your garage and finding a snake curled up behind some stuff, the state of terror I would be in is out of this world.

most snakes are small and harmless. it’s not any worse than seeing a rat or a lizard. in the US the main snake everyone gets warned about is the coral snake, which has a distinctive pattern and is very poisonous.

The thing about venomous snakes (at least in the US) is that most people think they are WAY more common and have a greater range than they do, largely because so many harmless snakes look like venomous snakes.

I know a lot of people in Kansas/Iowa/Missouri/Nebraska that are sure they've been in cottonmouth/water moccasin-infested areas, but the truth is neither snake actually occurs in those area.

Similarly with Copperheads, although those do occur in a sliver of eastern Kansas and most of Missouri.

Coral snakes only occur in the extreme south and east reaches of the US, but people worry about them everywhere. Probably because the harmless milk snake occurs in most of the US and people don't know the difference.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#67

Post by setgree » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:26 PM UTC

distant_hat wrote: post #29

garyclarke27 wrote: post #24

There is a simple natural permanent solution for this problem, just introduce an Apex predator - the majestic Jaguar. Jaguars used to inhabit the southern parts of North America - they seldom attack humans but they will happily eat snakes and alligators. They could restore health to the ecosystem, also make it more interesting, thus also benefiting the tourist industry.

True but they have a varied enough diet that snakes may only be marginally affected. To bring down pythons you'd need a more targeted predator, or a virus or bacteria or something that targets pythons alone.

From "Bart the Mother", Simpsons season 10:

"SKINNER Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.

LISA But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?

SKINNER No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.

LISA But aren't the snakes even worse?

SKINNER Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.

LISA But then we're stuck with gorillas!

SKINNER No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death."

jaguars, at least, wouldn't be being introduced but re-introduced.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#68

Post by lostapathy » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

sehugg wrote: post #63

currymj wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most snakes are small and harmless. it’s not any worse than seeing a rat or a lizard. in the US the main snake everyone gets warned about is the coral snake, which has a distinctive pattern and is very poisonous.

Copperheads are bad, especially since many other species look like them. They can put you in the hospital. Avoid the triangle head.

The danger of copperheads is greatly overstated. Yes, they are venomous and will bite, but they are very rarely fatal to humans.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#69

Post by lostapathy » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:31 PM UTC

astazangasta wrote: post #31

empath75 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

If they can raise a python for less than $50 this will happen.

Probably why this program is only limited to licensed snake hunters and not the general population.

Re: The men fighting Florida’s python epidemic

#70

Post by ppseafield » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 11:32 PM UTC

hackerman12345 wrote: post #48

garyclarke27 wrote: post #24

There is a simple natural permanent solution for this problem, just introduce an Apex predator - the majestic Jaguar. Jaguars used to inhabit the southern parts of North America - they seldom attack humans but they will happily eat snakes and alligators. They could restore health to the ecosystem, also make it more interesting, thus also benefiting the tourist industry.

They may seldom attack humans, but it wouldn't be safe/smart to let your kids play outside if there were jaguars around.

Except there are already rock pythons, alligators, crocodiles, water moccasins, water bugs, fire ants, rattlesnakes, brown recluses, coyotes, wild dogs, cats, and pigs... I'm forgetting a few. Florida's natural wildlife isn't exactly friendly.