The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#81

Post by jeena » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 8:50 PM UTC

soared wrote: post #69

metaphor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate? There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops. Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how ar…

I took OP's comment to mean that tinkering is largely unnecessary now. Previously with both cars and computers you needed to know how to tinker because things didn't work perfectly so often. In the 80s both your computer and your car would need servicing/troubleshooting more often than today. I never tinker with my car or laptop now simply because I never have the need.

For some reason I still need to repair my computers, dishwashers, cars, etc. see https://jeena.net/posts/114 or https://jeena.net/thinkpad-t410-speakers-fix and it's still possible if you have the luck to have bought something which is possible to be repaired.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#82

Post by ecshafer » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

jeena wrote: post #76

noir_lord wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm seeing this right now, I grew up programming (started at 7), at 9 I was way more computer fluent than my 9 year old step-son is now. I think it's simply that modern machines are (generally) so reliable that you never have to get under the hood to figure out what broke until you (rarely) do and then you have no conceptual framework for trying to resolve what is broken. His trouble shooting process is handing it to…

> I think it's simply that modern machines are (generally) so reliable that you never have to get under the hood to figure out what broke until you (rarely) do and then you have no conceptual framework for trying to resolve what is broken. You have the same problem with cars. When I was 18 I was able to disassemble and reassemble my car and basically fix anything which broke. I even replaced the bodywork one time aft…

One issue with cars is that many of the simple tasks to cut your teeth on, can now require a lot of work. I had a car that you couldn't change the battery without removing a wheel and using a lift.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#83

Post by zanny » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:04 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #32

joefourier wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly requires tech savviness about social media? The interfaces are designed to be simple and intuitively usable by the lowest common denominator. The platforms' front-ends expose almost nothing about they actually work, and there is almost no way for an average user to fix any problems should they occur, or to customize the closed-source app released in the walled garden. Does Instagram teach you about image…

It's more akin to the fact that I'm woefully unaware of most new pop music coming out these days as well as many TV shows/films/video channels that cater to a younger audience. Given that I'm at least reasonably connected on social media I'm probably not as completely in the dark as some my age, but I'm certainly not pop culture savvy.

What is "pop culture" even? Its just a measure of targeted advertising towards the most ill equipped to respond to it productively or healthily. There was pop culture targeting your parents, yourself, your kids, and there will be something targeting your kids kids.

The fact you show no interest in it is more a reflection that you got through the dredge of surface level vapid entertainment all kids are subject to, come out on the other side, and realize "hey look, theres stuff thats a lot better / more interesting than that" and unsurprisingly gravitate towards that over the next iteration of entry level disposable culture targeting kids.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#84

Post by tehlike » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

noir_lord wrote: post #37

ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

I'm seeing this right now, I grew up programming (started at 7), at 9 I was way more computer fluent than my 9 year old step-son is now. I think it's simply that modern machines are (generally) so reliable that you never have to get under the hood to figure out what broke until you (rarely) do and then you have no conceptual framework for trying to resolve what is broken. His trouble shooting process is handing it to…

I grew up learning programming at early age. Things got more reliable, and more automatic too. Setting up a web page is easy, dynamic db apps are trivial now. In the pas you would have to do all that yourself

However, if you somehow get into new areas, it feels similar. Like smart home tools of today are very badic and requires a lot of troubleshooting.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#85

Post by vaylian » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:13 PM UTC

high_derivative wrote: post #17

I have long thought the term 'digital native' is a sort of filter for people who are not actually technologists but avid consumers of mostly social platforms. I (as a computer scientist) have never heard people actually working in tech refer to themselves as that.

It's a useful term that I like to use when politicians propose something stupid or harmful that is related to digital technology. It's fitting because it sometimes seems that they want to push their visions of how the internet should work on others. A good example is the current copyright reform of the EU.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#86

Post by Nullabillity » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #55

alephnil wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, it is much harder to tinker with technology than it used to be. Not only is it more complex, but phones are also locked down so you are not really able to control your own device, or it does at least require quite some effort to do so, and can't be done using the device itself. Both Apple and Google in practice discourage people from tinkering with the device.

It's only harder if you make it harder and don't put any thought into it. Desktop computers still exist, and you can still order the parts to make your own. You can even buy cool glass cases where the parts are exposed and all light up. Raspberry pi are essentially free, and can be used for all kinds of interesting stuff. Do that. See also Razer synapse, the El gato streamdeck, programmable keyboards, all of which st…

Sure, but it's no longer the device people have to be default. Kids usually aren't in a position to order expensive and/or niche stuff on a whim...

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#87

Post by hopler » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

Yetanfou wrote: post #48

ddebernardy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd put the top more or less at the rise of Linux, the BSD's and similar systems. I'm not sure the two compare so well. Kids that fiddle with Linux do so out of curiosity. For the other kids, the closest you'll ever get to config file fiddling might be when they're forced to use Linux -- which could happen, for instance, when their techie parent refuses to have a Windows box or a Mac in the house. By contrast, take…

I'd rather compare it with one family which bought their children a box of Lego or a similar construction toy while the other gave them access to a scrap heap with broken mopeds and lawnmowers. The Lego-endowned kids will make interesting constructions which don't really serve any purpose but stimulate their creativity while the scrap-heap kids repair the mopeds and build go-karts with the lawnmower parts, maybe one…

I think it was Marvin Minsky (but not sure) who blamed LEGO for displacing Meccano and destroying engineering culture in USA.

All the complaints about kids toys being too dumbed down have been played out before.

Edgar Dijkstra complained that Americans were so rich that American so-called computer scientists built and played with computers too much instead of doing computer science that the Europeans did.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#88

Post by hopler » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

dsajames wrote: post #28

ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

Yup. There was a time I could write out a win.ini file from memory and understanding all the options. Today, doing the same on any platform would be impossible. It's been many years. Computers have gotten far more complex and reliable. My uncle knew how to rebuild his car engine, I don't. Same thing.

A few years ago if you downloaded a web page you could repair it with Greasemonkey and user scripts. Now web pages are React or native apps and near impossible to tinker

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#89

Post by hopler » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

metaphor wrote: post #74

skybrian wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A major difference is that our relationship to risk has changed. For example, working on some parts of a Tesla or some parts of a hybrid would mean working with high-voltage equipment. Although I know some of the principles, I am hesitant to be my own electrician. I'm very cautious just doing a jump start. Of course, this has always been the case, people just accepted (or didn't understand) the risks. The capacitors…

There's a weird relationship between electricity and self-confidence that I've never quite understood; suspect it's similar to the phenomena that enables math to be the only general academic subject in which it is socially acceptable to suck at, and/or related to a lack of "correction window" when tinkering with forces that propagate at the speed of light. That being said, I'd posit that having a set of technical man…

It's really easy to kill yourself if you go messing around in your house wiring. It's possible to be safe, but it's not on the same plane as messing with an unplugged washing machine or TV.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#90

Post by sametmax » Sun, Feb 17, 2019, 10:15 PM UTC

metaphor wrote: post #68

kijin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, not having to fix your own car happened one generation ago. Now it's happening to computers.

Cars don't fix themselves--people do. The only difference is vehicle manufacturers have convinced ignorant consumers into believing that technology has advanced so far that only a "professional" can do it, i.e. those who hold a copy of official technical manuals.

People are happy to be convinced. They want to have their car fixed, not necessarily fix it themself.

I'm a linux guy, but why do you think people buy macs ?