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The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

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Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#71

Post by EpicEng »

ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

Sure, if you were part of the tiny fraction of kids who were actually tinkering with computers. Most weren't. I'm sure the overall level of technical competence is higher today.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#72

Post by monocasa »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #38
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." This is the biggest difference between then and now. In the 70s and 80s computing was all about details, all the way down to the hardware, which most developers understood at the register level. 8-bit amateurs grew up with simple toy machines. They learned enough detail to allow a natural transition to professional development on mainframes and minis -…

> There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." The whole point of the many abstractions between the user and the hardware is so they don’t have to care about the details.

Abstractions are, almost by definition, always imperfect. A perfect abstraction sort of ceases to be an abstraction and is simply "the way things are".

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#73

Post by Kye »

EpicEng wrote: post #71
ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

Sure, if you were part of the tiny fraction of kids who were actually tinkering with computers. Most weren't. I'm sure the overall level of technical competence is higher today.

Seriously. There are 20-somethings now who got into development making Minecraft mods at the same age I was tinkering with autoexec.bat and QBasic.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#74

Post by metaphor »

skybrian wrote: post #70
metaphor wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate? There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops. Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how ar…

A major difference is that our relationship to risk has changed. For example, working on some parts of a Tesla or some parts of a hybrid would mean working with high-voltage equipment. Although I know some of the principles, I am hesitant to be my own electrician. I'm very cautious just doing a jump start. Of course, this has always been the case, people just accepted (or didn't understand) the risks. The capacitors…

There's a weird relationship between electricity and self-confidence that I've never quite understood; suspect it's similar to the phenomena that enables math to be the only general academic subject in which it is socially acceptable to suck at, and/or related to a lack of "correction window" when tinkering with forces that propagate at the speed of light.

That being said, I'd posit that having a set of technical manuals at your disposal would dramatically change this perception to the detriment of certain lucrative service markets. Everything breaks; the real question is who has the capacity to administer repairs, and at what cost?

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#75

Post by ghaff »

metaphor wrote: post #65
sametmax wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost becomes exponential though. Learning to fix a tesla is not the same as learning to fix a 70' ford.

I'd argue that it would actually be easier: modular, less component-level repair. The difference is Tesla won't sell you technical manuals, which are reserved for their chain of authorized service shops.

Tesla is pretty much an extreme example. My understanding is that, unless things have changed, they've effectively thumbed their nose at the Massachusetts Right to Repair law.

See, e.g. this thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-an...

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#76

Post by jeena »

noir_lord wrote: post #37
ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

I'm seeing this right now, I grew up programming (started at 7), at 9 I was way more computer fluent than my 9 year old step-son is now. I think it's simply that modern machines are (generally) so reliable that you never have to get under the hood to figure out what broke until you (rarely) do and then you have no conceptual framework for trying to resolve what is broken. His trouble shooting process is handing it to…

> I think it's simply that modern machines are (generally) so reliable that you never have to get under the hood to figure out what broke until you (rarely) do and then you have no conceptual framework for trying to resolve what is broken.

You have the same problem with cars. When I was 18 I was able to disassemble and reassemble my car and basically fix anything which broke. I even replaced the bodywork one time after a crash.

Today nobody even changes their summer-/winter-tires on their own anymore, let alone changing oil or renewing breaks.

You could also say that the machines became so reliable and so complicated that most people don't need too look under the hood and if they need it's too complicated anyway.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#77

Post by dghughes »

ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

Having 24MB of RAM but only 650KB usable was annoying and pressure me into learning.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#78

Post by dghughes »

kijin wrote: post #41
sametmax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, nowaday most people drive but can't fix their cars. Makes sense the same is happening with IT.

Yup, not having to fix your own car happened one generation ago. Now it's happening to computers.

Not only that but people these days are terrible drivers now that cars have ABS, traction control, blind spot sensors, even brake assist and automatic cruise/autopilot. They crash into the car ahead of them in multi-car a pile up and cry they are innocent.

People using computers seem to be the same people mindlessly click on anything with an OK button on it. Then their entire bank account is drained and they cry innocence.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#79

Post by Buldak »

sxates wrote: post #19

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself. Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering. This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "ti…

Yeah, I wonder of "tinkering" isn't bound to diminish with technological progress. If things like cars and computers become more sophisticated over time, presumably that pushes them progressively beyond the abilities of laymen. (More optimistically, they may simply require less tinkering to begin with.)

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#80

Post by metaphor »

ghaff wrote: post #75
metaphor wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that it would actually be easier: modular, less component-level repair. The difference is Tesla won't sell you technical manuals, which are reserved for their chain of authorized service shops.

Tesla is pretty much an extreme example. My understanding is that, unless things have changed, they've effectively thumbed their nose at the Massachusetts Right to Repair law. See, e.g. this thread: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/does-teslas-parts-an...

Tesla isn't an outlier; the problem is far more systemic than I'd wager most realize.

E.g. Helm[1] is the official publisher of OEM technical manuals for at least 23 vehicle makes--the same manuals used by their respective authorized service shops. Something happened circa 2012-2013 that caused most of these manufacturers to stop allowing direct purchase of their service manuals by the general public, including Acura, Lexus, and Honda being the 3 that I've kept a close eye on over the years.

[1] https://helminc.com

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