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Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

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Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#81

Post by monocasa »

dimitrov wrote: post #79
monocasa wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook does play a pretty direct role in the ongoing Rohingya genocide.

Facebook has paramilitary factions genociding the Rohingya? I'm not denying that Facebook played a role in the spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories in Myanmar but to place the blame directly on them is absurd. Facebook is just an ill-moderated medium.

There's more than that. Messenger/Facebook is used in a lot of the third world in place of stuff like SMS and phone calls.

Facebook completely kneecapped the ability of the Rohingya to organize and tell their story by pulling stuff like this at the request of the Burmese government. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/20/facebook-...

EDIT: This whole idea that Facebook's only sin was not moderating enough, and that they didn't give direct support to the government to help the genocide is just their PR and legal departments going into overdrive because they know they screwed up hard.

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#82

Post by ardy42 »

gcb0 wrote: post #66

can't read an article behind a paypal. but how is this facial data collection any different than Facebook's?

> but how is this facial data collection any different than Facebook's?

Does Facebook have cameras everywhere that feed facial recognition and location data into a database that correlates it with government-id information?

No, Facebook does not. That is how it is different.

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#83

Post by goodwork »

dimitrov wrote: post #79
monocasa wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook does play a pretty direct role in the ongoing Rohingya genocide.

Facebook has paramilitary factions genociding the Rohingya? I'm not denying that Facebook played a role in the spread of misinformation and conspiracy theories in Myanmar but to place the blame directly on them is absurd. Facebook is just an ill-moderated medium.

Dimitrov, you just keep posting unsubstantiated comments. Show us proof that FB was not directly behind this Massacre.

Monocasa proves links and sources, and you don't cite anything at all

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#84

Post by arminiusreturns »

nabla9 wrote: post #70
arminiusreturns wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so absolutely tired of people dismissing very real concerns and positions of people with the term "conspiracy theory"! First of all, gp isn't wrong, those things do happen in America and we have had plenty of proof leak over the years to back that up. Second, the entire history of the world is chock-full of conspiracy, so to dismiss points so blithely and naively as " conspiracy theory" indicates a lack of knowle…

"Those things do happen" is not proper counterargument. I'm aware that they happen and I'm worried. They just don't happen in the same scale and they don't have as bad consequences for people.

You said none of that in your original argument.

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#85

Post by PavlovsCat »

nabla9 wrote: post #70
arminiusreturns wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so absolutely tired of people dismissing very real concerns and positions of people with the term "conspiracy theory"! First of all, gp isn't wrong, those things do happen in America and we have had plenty of proof leak over the years to back that up. Second, the entire history of the world is chock-full of conspiracy, so to dismiss points so blithely and naively as " conspiracy theory" indicates a lack of knowle…

"Those things do happen" is not proper counterargument. I'm aware that they happen and I'm worried. They just don't happen in the same scale and they don't have as bad consequences for people.

There is a huge difference between "that's not true, it's a conspiracy theory", and "oh sure it does happen, but at a different scale and with less bad consequences [not that I would want to suffer the worst consequences in either scenario]".

> "Those things do happen" is not proper counterargument.

To "that's a conspiracy theory" it actually is, and though I still agree that it's a red herring to talk about the US when China is brought up (and China or Russia or human nature when the US is brought up), it's not a "conspiracy theory" at all.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/j...

> It is therefore not surprising that the increasing privatisation of intelligence has coincided with the proliferation of domestic surveillance operations against political activists, particularly those linked to environmental and social justice protest groups.

> Department of Homeland Security documents released in April prove a "systematic effort" by the agency "to surveil and disrupt peaceful demonstrations" linked to Occupy Wall Street, according to the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF).

> Similarly, FBI documents confirmed "a strategic partnership between the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the private sector" designed to produce intelligence on behalf of "the corporate security community." A PCJF spokesperson remarked that the documents show "federal agencies functioning as a de facto intelligence arm of Wall Street and Corporate America."

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#86

Post by sartvale04 »

itissid wrote: post #22

This is so sad: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/muslims-...

Throwaway account because I'm originally from China.

This Chinese government is pure evil. No one should be doing any sort of business with them, period. If you have a choice, don't buy Chinese goods. If you have a choice, don't partner with Chinese government. If you have a choice, leave China. I've seen first hand how gruesome some of the actions the government levies against its citizens. If you think these don't concern you, just think what would happen if this government were to expand more of its footprint on the world.

Look into your morality and conscience. Don't do business with China.

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#87

Post by [deleted] »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #72
bigmonads wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point of coldtea's comment is that: - We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard - We're talking about others (Chinese) needing to rebel, blaming this on brainwashing, without adknowledging our own inability and unwillingness to act, without being willing to label this brainwashing - We're building over the course of increasingly ignorant veiled-criticism po…

> We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard How do you even know? These complaints are never in direct response to a person who clearly espoused a hypocritical position, it's just general talking into the room, or in response to an assumption. > rather than addressing the global systemic abuse How is "but the NSA" achieving that? Or simply assuming someone else has thi…

[deleted]

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#88

Post by jryle70 »

bigmonads wrote: post #55
ngcc_hk wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if so, you agree? Acceptable? Silly statement.

I think the point of coldtea's comment is that: - We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard - We're talking about others (Chinese) needing to rebel, blaming this on brainwashing, without adknowledging our own inability and unwillingness to act, without being willing to label this brainwashing - We're building over the course of increasingly ignorant veiled-criticism po…

> We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard

A cursory search on HN will give you countless counter-examples. Can you give me an example of the inconsistency?

Are you suggesting there should be no posts criticizing China? or every such a post should have a banner claiming "Be gentle. Don't criticize too much. Look into the mirror"? how about HN visitors not from the US?

> We're talking about others (Chinese) needing to rebel, blaming this on brainwashing, without adknowledging our own inability and unwillingness to act, without being willing to label this brainwashing

You know what is brainwashing? "China’s most popular app is a propaganda tool teaching Xi Jinping Thought" [0]

> Our "blindspot" of admitting our own state the abuse of information fundamentally carves out, via the course of international law and sovereignty, the justification for other countries to do the exact same

First off, the US is not the leader of surveillance. Other countries don't need US's approval to implement their own surveillance. What a smack of arrogance. Are you sure you don't believe in American supremacy?

Secondly, I'm not aware of any "international law" that justifies surveillance because "the US does it".

> In essence: fixing this kind of thing starts at home in the United States. Sunday morning HN comment anguish over the Uighurs of China is navel gazing.

This reminds me of the the argument against space exploration: "Fix issues on Earth first before thinking of Mars". You know how absurd it is.

[0] https://www.scmp.com/tech/apps-social/article/2186037/chinas...

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#89

Post by yourbandsucks »

PavlovsCat wrote: post #72
bigmonads wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point of coldtea's comment is that: - We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard - We're talking about others (Chinese) needing to rebel, blaming this on brainwashing, without adknowledging our own inability and unwillingness to act, without being willing to label this brainwashing - We're building over the course of increasingly ignorant veiled-criticism po…

> We're being inconsistent with our criticism, unwilling to apply it as a universal standard How do you even know? These complaints are never in direct response to a person who clearly espoused a hypocritical position, it's just general talking into the room, or in response to an assumption. > rather than addressing the global systemic abuse How is "but the NSA" achieving that? Or simply assuming someone else has thi…

I mean, there's a two minutes hate against China on the front page of HN almost every day.

Unless you believe China is the sole source of evil in this world (and I'm sure some do!), there is clearly a bit of nationalist bias

Oh, neat, I'm shadowbanned :)

Re: Data leak reveals China is tracking almost 2.6m people in Xinjiang

#90

Post by [deleted] »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #80
viivaux wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a time when your comments here would be discussed and generally agreed with instead of blindly downvoted and removed. Come to think of it, I can't remember the last time HN had a good discussion about US censorship and surveillance. Weird.

Well as somebody who is very anti US-monitoring, let me help you understand: Your comments are so unproductive (i.e. emotional/irrelevant/us-vs-them) that they actually undermine the cause you say you're concerned about. You give the rest of us a bad name.

[deleted]
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