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The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

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Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#61

Post by metaphor »

sxates wrote: post #19

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself. Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering. This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "ti…

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate?

There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops.

Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how are scarce commodities in the age of information is not a generational coincidence.

[1] https://www.helminc.com

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#62

Post by gordaco »

shostack wrote: post #57
gordaco wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Things become more consumer friendly, i.e. more general public friendly, but less power user friendly. This happened with cars (they have many electronic components that aren't as easy to repair as it was in the past, when everything was mechanic) and has been happening with computers for some time, regarding both software and hardware (walled gardens, dumbed-down operating systems with fewer and fewer config…

I'd argue things have become more consumer-hostile, not friendly. Ease of use should not be conflated with policies that restrict users from doing what they want with their devices because they "no longer own them" or force business models like printer ink.

Yes, definitely. There is a very strong push from both hardware and software companies to make us less and less free. Modern devices are only user-friendly with regards to usability.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#63

Post by rjsw »

metaphor wrote: post #61
sxates wrote: post #19

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself. Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering. This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "ti…

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate? There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops. Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how ar…

Once you have the technical information, diagnosing problems is much easier these days.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#64

Post by askafriend »

dkersten wrote: post #44
wilsonnb3 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no such thing as "don't have to care about the details." The whole point of the many abstractions between the user and the hardware is so they don’t have to care about the details.

Not caring about the details leaves us with people who can't fix simple issues and with applications that use way too much cpu, memory or energy than they really should. Sure, a lot of people don't care and just want to do the thing, but if you at all care that your computer that is 1000x as powerful as the one you had years ago, but doesn't really do a lot more, then you have to care. If you care about the users of…

Performance is a business decision.

It doesn’t come for free and ultimately other things might be more important.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#65

Post by metaphor »

sametmax wrote: post #54
ghaff wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like computers, it varied. Neither my parents nor I ever did our own car maintenance to any significant degree up to and including oil changes. And I don't think that's a particular outlier. OTOH, my dad did a significant amount of major renovation work with the fixer-upper house I grew up in. A lot of it comes down to choosing how you spend your time and what skills you choose to develop. Because you probably can't…

The cost becomes exponential though. Learning to fix a tesla is not the same as learning to fix a 70' ford.

I'd argue that it would actually be easier: modular, less component-level repair.

The difference is Tesla won't sell you technical manuals, which are reserved for their chain of authorized service shops.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#66

Post by jameshart »

ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

we’re all outliers here. The majority of kids in the 90s were no more tech savvy than today’s median kid. Probably less. You’re likely in the 90th percentile for the hacker mindset - that most kids are less geeky than you are should not be a surprise.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#67

Post by noja »

jameshart wrote: post #66
ddebernardy wrote: post #8

It's not clear to me why they should be "digitally superior" - whatever that means. Kids just need to tap icons on their touchscreens nowadays. They seldom need to tinker with or troubleshoot computers. Just spitballing here, but I'd expect peak tech-savviness to have occurred in the 80s and early 90s. If you were old enough to want to play resource intensive games released in the run-up to Win95, you'd sometimes nee…

we’re all outliers here. The majority of kids in the 90s were no more tech savvy than today’s median kid. Probably less. You’re likely in the 90th percentile for the hacker mindset - that most kids are less geeky than you are should not be a surprise.

the surprise is that we expected the opposite

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#68

Post by metaphor »

kijin wrote: post #41
sametmax wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, nowaday most people drive but can't fix their cars. Makes sense the same is happening with IT.

Yup, not having to fix your own car happened one generation ago. Now it's happening to computers.

Cars don't fix themselves--people do.

The only difference is vehicle manufacturers have convinced ignorant consumers into believing that technology has advanced so far that only a "professional" can do it, i.e. those who hold a copy of official technical manuals.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#69

Post by soared »

metaphor wrote: post #61
sxates wrote: post #19

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself. Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering. This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "ti…

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate? There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops. Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how ar…

I took OP's comment to mean that tinkering is largely unnecessary now. Previously with both cars and computers you needed to know how to tinker because things didn't work perfectly so often. In the 80s both your computer and your car would need servicing/troubleshooting more often than today. I never tinker with my car or laptop now simply because I never have the need.

Re: The Rise of the Tech-Savvy Parent

#70

Post by skybrian »

metaphor wrote: post #61
sxates wrote: post #19

When I was a kid, my dad changed the oil in our cars, replaced brakes and spark plugs, and if it broke down he could at least diagnose it if not fix it himself. Now I'm grown up, and cars have changed a lot. I have a tesla, and the only thing I can really service on it myself is the washer fluid. But it's also more reliable and doesn't need constant tinkering. This was what came to mind reading this. I was of the "ti…

Sorry but I don't buy the argument...or perhaps can't is more appropriate? There are only two things that genuinely preclude owners from servicing their own vehicles (Tesla or otherwise): a lack of will, and vehicle manufacturers refusing to sell technical manuals[1] to anyone other than authorized service shops. Sure technology has appreciably advanced in 30 years, but the fact that technical details and know-how ar…

A major difference is that our relationship to risk has changed. For example, working on some parts of a Tesla or some parts of a hybrid would mean working with high-voltage equipment. Although I know some of the principles, I am hesitant to be my own electrician. I'm very cautious just doing a jump start.

Of course, this has always been the case, people just accepted (or didn't understand) the risks. The capacitors in an old TV could pack quite a charge. Working on a roof has its risks. Early chemistry kits let kids blow stuff up. Apparently it was accepted more, before.

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