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U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

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Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#241

Post by jclay »

RGamma wrote: post #127

From a European perspective I can only shake my head at this. It doesn't seem like a good idea at all to indebt a significant part of the young population (which I presume creates a lot of avoidable stress) while the rich gain in wealth and power year after year. But I guess longer-term thinking has been thrown overboard in economic decision/policy making anyway, because that would make the numbers not grow fast enou…

American here who just went through this process. I returned to finish my undergrad at one of the most expensive schools, in one of the most expensive cities.

I think as others said, many students aren’t doing the ROI calculations.

For me, the government loans are 3.75% which is totally reasonable IMO. One could easily outpace this with an ETF fund.

The private loans are more expensive at 6% and up but the lower end is still totally reasonable.

The real issue is that people taking these loans lack the financial skills to pay them back. A friend who is out of school for 10 years has a near six figure loan debt that he refuses to pay down despite earning six figures. Learning to budget and live frugally is a required skill to escape the debt that many don’t have.

I also know very few that have visited financial aid to get a second look at their scholarships / grants. I went every semester and walked out with something. A friend walked out with $14k extra in financial aid from one meeting. Those in the worst positions financially also get vastly more aid. I had some savings going in but still paid a fraction of the tuition sticker price.

In all, the experience worked out well in my favor with a paid research position and other breaks along the way, but given any other situation I would recommend going the state school route which is often a tenth of the cost.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#242

Post by why-el »

mycorrhizal wrote: post #187
why-el wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a conversation about education. The EU, with all its faults, is leaps and bounds ahead of the US in the democratization of education, even though the US was the nation that pioneered the field in the first place. Goes to show how extreme the whole political spectrum of the US has gotten.

Aren't a lot of these European countries a lot more pragmatic (cut throat?) about who can go to college? For example in Germany, I was under the impression that around adolescence they start dividing people into the university path people and the non-university path people. I don't think this type of system would go over well in the US with its individualism/"control your own destiny" mindset. I'm not saying the Euro…

It's not as cut throat as you make it sound. People who go to "practical" schools can always switch back. I lived in Germany and have friends who got Bachelor's degree at 35+. Another good reason to make it affordable is that people will always have options.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#243

Post by davesque »

booleandilemma wrote: post #218
rubyn00bie wrote: post #138

Let it burn down. No one should pay back their student loan debt. Seriously, just stop. This is a scheme in which they've fucked over a large portion of the population with the skyrocketing prices of education. Further, this education is the regularly accepted means of increasing your production. Society says you have to do this, and then continuously increases the price, without reason. The gist of this is; some shi…

Or, you know, you could just pay your debt, like any self-respecting person would.

Useless comment. I paid all my student debt and I don't feel like I gained any self-respect from it.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#245

Post by cc439 »

pbiggar wrote: post #194
monting wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t mean to sound defensive (I’m not American), and I mostly agree with you. But, from a non-European perspective, Europe doesn’t seem to be doing well? It seems the EU is slowly disintegrating, and the monetary union isn’t working. Also the political landscape seems to be in turmoil as well.

> But, from a non-European perspective, Europe doesn’t seem to be doing well? It seems the EU is slowly disintegrating, and the monetary union isn’t working. Also the political landscape seems to be in turmoil as well. The purpose of the EU is to prevent war. The EU hasn't had a war in 75 years. That is the longest that Europe hasn't been at war in its recorded history.

Are the balkans not part of what has traditionally been considered Europe? I seem to recall a little conflict involving ethnic cleansing back in the late 90's...

Also, I understand that Russia is considered less and less "European" with each passing year but the Ukraine and Russia (or at least all of its centers of power) are located within the European continent by definition. There's also the issue of the IRA's war against Northern Ireland and the UK as a whole, while that conflict doesn't meet the commonly agreed definition of "traditional warfare", it was the very template every modern insurgency bases itself upon. In a sense that was a war by any modern definition since traditional warfare seems to have become a relic of the past.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#246

Post by wtvanhest »

twblalock wrote: post #103
wtvanhest wrote: post #4

If you add up the total cost of all education institutions in the US, multiply by 4 years, then build a payment structure based on that number, there is simply not enough income left over in the corhort of new grads (first 10 years out of school) to pay the debt service. The problem has nothing to do with liberal art majors, or irresponsible borrowing. The problem is entirely driven by an excessive cost structure of…

> People like the founder of Lambda School understand the problem and will be the solution. The solution is in plain sight and has been successful in other first-world countries for decades: government funding of higher education. People who suggest a market-based solution need to explain why none of the first-world countries that have achieved affordable, high quality higher education have used a market solution. Th…

We already have a gov funded public education system. Its just that the gov doesnt pick up the tab until there is a default.

Very inefficient and expensive in every country including the US.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#248

Post by wtvanhest »

Kephael wrote: post #195
wtvanhest wrote: post #4

If you add up the total cost of all education institutions in the US, multiply by 4 years, then build a payment structure based on that number, there is simply not enough income left over in the corhort of new grads (first 10 years out of school) to pay the debt service. The problem has nothing to do with liberal art majors, or irresponsible borrowing. The problem is entirely driven by an excessive cost structure of…

It's irresponsible to borrow when you will not have the means to pay back the debt. Most college graduates end up underemployed or unemployed after earning a degree in a non-rigorous major from a mediocre school. With only a BS degree and ~$30k debt, a professional job can easily pay this off. If the market could price the loans properly, perhaps they'd be discouraged from taking out the loans. Realistically, a loan…

There are not enough 'professional jobs' in the United States to pay the total debt service created by the cost structure.

If everyone switched to business and engineering, there would still not be enough jobs to support the educational cost structure.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#249

Post by candiodari »

zizee wrote: post #232
stenl wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US taxes on average-ish incomes are definitely among the lowest in the OECD (as expected): http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/10/24/among-develo...

> So we chose to focus on a simple measure of tax burden: national-level income taxes plus mandatory social-insurance contributions as a percentage of gross income I am not an American, nor that knowledgeable about their tax system, but my impression is that their system has a lot of layers (like state/county/local), which might make it unfair just to compare national level taxes.

Don't forget VAT is double. Property tax is higher. Employment tax (paid by employer, not part of gross pay) is a lot higher.

I always feel like tax should be measured in "if my employer pays 100 extra, how much more can I give another company for a good/service".

I don't know about US but for Germany the answer is between 25 and 40 depending on how low your income is and what your family situation is.

Re: U.S. Student Debt in ‘Serious Delinquency’ Tops $166B

#250

Post by votepaunchy »

briandear wrote: post #39
wtvanhest wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we are being honest, sports and minor non-instructional costs are minor vs the cost of small classrooms and professors. We need to vastly cut costs and sports and non-instructional costs wont move the needle.

For many schools, sports are a profit center. Texas A&M for example, makes several hundred million per year from their sports. Schools like NYU with their insane tuition doesn’t even have big sports, yet it’s one of the most expensive schools around.

> Texas A&M for example, makes several hundred million per year from their sports.

A few schools earn direct profits of about $10 million per year from their athletic budgets. Texas A&M's increased revenue is related to stadium renovations.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#

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