This is garbage. The real villains are Neville Chamberlain and Lord Halifax. They would have condemned half a billion people to death just to give Britain a few extra years of peace.
Half a billion foreigners should be worth less than 1 Briton to a British leader.
The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
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Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#32You may not like what he said around WW2 but anyone who recently moved to the Bay Area will love his take on landlords, from 1909: > Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other pe…
At least where I live, land values are assessed annually, and the owner is obligated to pay a percentage of that value. Those tax funds are used for the very improvements mentioned, as well as usage-based utility fees for the services.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#33The article says: "Thanks to Churchill’s personal decisions, more than 3 million Bengalis died of hunger in a 1943 famine. Churchill deliberately ordered the diversion of food from starving Indian civilians to well-supplied British soldiers and even to top up European stockpiles, meant for yet-to-be-liberated Greeks and Yugoslavs. “The starvation of anyway underfed Bengalis is less serious” than that of “sturdy Greek…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943#Debate_a...
It certainly seems like an area of controversy, but is it so clear cut that it was Churchill's fault? It seems like the main takeaways are:
> Academic consensus generally follows the FEE account, as formulated by A. Sen (1977) and A. Sen (1981a), in describing the Bengal famine of 1943 as an "entitlements famine". On this view, the prelude to the famine was generalised war-time inflation, and the problem was exacerbated by prioritised distribution and abortive attempts at price control,[323] but the death blow was devastating leaps in the inflation rate due to heavy speculative buying.[324][AZ] This in turn caused a fatal decline in the real wages of landless agricultural workers,[325] transforming what should have been a local shortage into a horrific famine.[326]
If that's the case, was this clearly foreseeable or not, and were there alternatives? And it continues:
> More recent analyses often stress political factors.[BA] Discussions of the government's role split into two broad camps: those which suggest that the government unwittingly caused or was unable to respond to the crisis,[327] and those which assert that the government willfully caused or ignored the plight of starving Indians. The former see the problem as a series of avoidable war-time policy failures and "panicky responses"[138] from a government that was spectacularly inept,[328] overwhelmed[329] and in disarray; the latter as a conscious miscarriage of justice by the "ruling colonial elite"[330] who abandoned the poor of Bengal.[331]
The article doesn't mention if there's a current academic consensus on whether it was inept wartime panicking or conscious, however.
Is the narrative of "Churchill as Hitler to India" really justifiable, or just as simplistic as Churchill as Savior? I'm genuinely interested here, since I was never taught about this, and also curious why your comment is so downvoted.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "Plus; how would you stop it?" Well the primary targets, the carriers, weren't present. That was fortunate for America, to put it lightly. With the carriers missing, the attacking Japanese pilots focused their attacks on Battleship Row, against which they did severe damage. It should be noted however that after the first attack wave, the USN managed to put up very dense anti-aircraft fire that impeded the Japanese…
The US broke the Japanese crypto and naval signals well before the war. I’m curious how they missed the boat (no pun intended) on the massive attack. I vaguely remember the radio operators mistaking it as nothing which delayed the defences - as the hundreds of aircrafts came into view on radar. But beyond that how could they not have intercepted the planning beforehand? I’m not suggesting a conspiracy just curious.
According to this, their crypto was not completely broken, and the Japanese were very careful in shrouding their shift in strategy and attack plan from both the radios and other forms of communications.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#35You may not like what he said around WW2 but anyone who recently moved to the Bay Area will love his take on landlords, from 1909: > Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits still. Every one of those improvements is effected by the labor and cost of other pe…
Property taxes? At least where I live, land values are assessed annually, and the owner is obligated to pay a percentage of that value. Those tax funds are used for the very improvements mentioned, as well as usage-based utility fees for the services.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#36Sounds like ideologic revisionism to me.
Only because we easily dismiss the evil perpetuated in the colonies, push those things under the rag, and revise history to rewrite Hitler as the only evil in the world. It's understandable to some degree. After all, Churchill and colonialists just enslaved and killed inferior third world peoples (who cares about them), while Nazi Germany occupied and killed westerners...
What’s up with that? I wish we could give every disadvantaged group something like that. Although hopefully we’d learn lessons from creating the modern state of Israel and avoid a repeat of the six day war.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#37Churchill was a nationalist, an unreformed victorian, an imperialist - and yes, a racist too.
The Bengal famine of 1943 was 1.5m deaths, this in the midst of a war that killed 85m people. I'd also point out that in the context of India - a country which in 1943 had around 400m people living in it - in other words .375% of the total population.
I'd also like to note that in 1949, India inflicted partition on itself, the greatest humanitarian crisis (almost) no one has heard of before - it displaced 14m and likely killed another 200k - 2m - again, on a country of around 400m people.
I consider it a zero-sum game to try to judge people by modern standards, it is meaningless - and lessens their very important contributions in history. History is in my opinion about clearly stating facts, and letting individuals form their own opinion.
I consider Churchill to be a great man - just as with Stalin and Roosevelt, whatever failings he had as peacetime a leader, are overshadowed to a significant amount by his wartime successes.
I also point out, that Churchill was not perfect, he was a lousy, lousy theatre commander.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you’re going to bring up their blunders you should perhaps also mention how Churchill completely cocked-up several crucial naval operations that could have ended the war early. If he was around today he’d be what they call a “failson” Oh and then there’s the whole Indian famine thing...
Which naval operations? WW1 or WW2?
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Property taxes? At least where I live, land values are assessed annually, and the owner is obligated to pay a percentage of that value. Those tax funds are used for the very improvements mentioned, as well as usage-based utility fees for the services.
California has prop 13 which results in property taxes not keeping up with assessments.
Re: The Rest of Us Always Knew Churchill Was a Villain
#40https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/in-the-media/churchil...