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Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

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Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#21

Post by rleigh »

mehrdadn wrote: post #16
dmitriid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI 1. Where would a user even learn about a "Classic Shell"? 2. Why would a power user install a third-party thing that radically changes the way the system looks? And one whose development stopped in 2017? 3. And, in general, why? It's the OS' job to provide interfaces for power users.

1. Google old start menu . It's literally the top result. 2/3. Sigh. I didn't realize setting up Classic Shell was so much harder than setting up a Linux box for a power user, I'm sorry. Power users definitely should be the ones to expect their OSes to be perfect for them out of the box, and it's definitely nuts to expect they'd be the ones to customize their systems.

The problem with this is primarily that it's not the default. It's a remedial action to make a poorly functional system usable at a basic level.

People in the know are aware of Classic Shell. Most people aren't. Most people won't take any remedial actions or even find out that there are options; they'll live with it, hating it, and despising Windows even more. The number of people who go to the effort of installing Classic Shell is a tiny minority of the total userbase.

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#22

Post by Theodores »

Windows was once quite exciting, it punched above its weight and enabled people to do stuff that they didn't know they wanted to do but were grateful for it.

This energy is now in the browser with Chrome being where the innovation is at.

Microsoft can do whatever they like with their venerable operating system but the days of it being exciting and newsworthy are over. The fun is elsewhere and they have missed the boat with mobile and the internet browser.

I know you can do development on Windows but I only see Apple things at those conferences and in meeting rooms.

Personally I prefer linux and will never believe that the Windows file system will be performant enough to be better than linux, not that this matters for everything but it does if dealing with data. And there is no way for them to fix that due to legacy issues. Decades ago they were going to make a file system more like a cool relational database, that dream died too.

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#23

Post by nazri1 »

vezycash wrote: post #3
PunksATawnyFill wrote: post #2

Great. Did they bring back the color-scheme editor? Now that everyone is (30+ years later) finally realizing that inverse-video color schemes are dumb... Microsoft REMOVED the color-scheme editor from Windows. WTF?

I work using a TV screen from a distance to protect my eyes. Microsoft pissed me off when they removed the ability to selectively increase font-size of elements like context menus, labels, content / message boxes... Without this, I'd have to zoom everything - font, and icons - pixelated and ugly! Now I'm forced to use winaero tweaker which doesn't allow all the changes I could in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and earlier version…

I feel you. https://xkcd.com/1172/

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#24

Post by vezycash »

mehrdadn wrote: post #14
fxfan wrote: post #10

The biggest problem with Microsoft is them not sticking to their strength. I was an avid fanboy till Windows 7. This was an OS that could cater to power users- keyboard shortcuts, powershell (shitty console but anyway). They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. Linux is mature now,…

> They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. I get that for ordinary users it's a dealbreaker, but I never understood this complaint about the Windows 8 touch UI from power users or developers. It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a cla…

Let's start with Windows 8. The unintuitive horizontal scrolling was because of touch users.

Jump to Windows 10 in its present state ruled by Nadella. The anti keyboard campaign is accelerating. The new control panel aka settings menu is designed for touch and mouse only.

With classic Windows, shortcuts were discoverable through ordinary usage. Now, you've got to Google em.

Not only that, context menus used to have unique shortcut keys. For instance, keyboard right-click, plus R used to activate the property menu. Now it simply goes btw two options and requiring the enter key.

Windows was ugly but some features worked or failed reliably. Now the replacements are beautiful but slow and break inexplicably e.g. The network interface is fine, but slow and will stop working if you turn it on/off often.

Bluetooth connection has become a try your luck activity.

Finally, the new control panel is just frustrating and confusing for simple tasks. It's a step back in usability. Tasks that used to take two clicks now require five or more. Some things are no longer possible

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#25

Post by craigsmansion »

"Windows 20-20, codenamed "hindsight", will be the first truly open-sourced release of the Windows operating system.

According to the company's CEO Nadella: "Ads and telemetry? Forced upgrades? In an OS? I really don't know what we were thinking at that time. We're sorry." and proceeded to add "Except for candy crush. The bright colors really soothe my nerves when I'm coming down from, uhm, executive decision making."

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#26

Post by sbr464 »

r3bl wrote: post #20
mehrdadn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. I get that for ordinary users it's a dealbreaker, but I never understood this complaint about the Windows 8 touch UI from power users or developers. It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a cla…

To shutdown Windows 8 (not 8.1), you had to swipe from the right to bring up the "charms" thing and that's where the shutdown option was. I remember myself having to search for "how to shutdown Windows 8" and feeling like a moron because I really couldn't figure it out on my own.

I agree. It’s been a while, but using OG Windows, you’d open start, then ctrl + u or similar (it’s been a while), and you could restart without touching the mouse. I couldn’t figure how to do it (if possible) in win 10.

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#27

Post by rincebrain »

mehrdadn wrote: post #16
dmitriid wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It takes maybe 5 minutes to download and install Classic Shell and suddenly you have a classic UI 1. Where would a user even learn about a "Classic Shell"? 2. Why would a power user install a third-party thing that radically changes the way the system looks? And one whose development stopped in 2017? 3. And, in general, why? It's the OS' job to provide interfaces for power users.

1. Google old start menu . It's literally the top result. 2/3. Sigh. I didn't realize setting up Classic Shell was so much harder than setting up a Linux box for a power user, I'm sorry. Power users definitely should be the ones to expect their OSes to be perfect for them out of the box, and it's definitely nuts to expect they'd be the ones to customize their systems.

Classic Shell is now unmaintained because MS kept iterating and breaking the APIs being used for it.

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#28

Post by dragonwriter »

rincebrain wrote: post #27
mehrdadn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Google old start menu . It's literally the top result. 2/3. Sigh. I didn't realize setting up Classic Shell was so much harder than setting up a Linux box for a power user, I'm sorry. Power users definitely should be the ones to expect their OSes to be perfect for them out of the box, and it's definitely nuts to expect they'd be the ones to customize their systems.

Classic Shell is now unmaintained because MS kept iterating and breaking the APIs being used for it.

The maintained version is Open Shell: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#29

Post by alkonaut »

fxfan wrote: post #10

The biggest problem with Microsoft is them not sticking to their strength. I was an avid fanboy till Windows 7. This was an OS that could cater to power users- keyboard shortcuts, powershell (shitty console but anyway). They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. Linux is mature now,…

Even 8.1 was a retreat from the Win8 strategy, and in Win10 I haven’t seen a touch thing at all (I haven’t accidentally started the on screen keyboard that popped up every now and then in 8). Apart from some annoyances - some people get ads on the start menu for example, and the telemetry is universally hated - new releases of 10 are really just a better 7. The improvements such as better high dpi, better shell, wsl etc make the upgrade from 7 to 10 a no brainer.

My biggest issue with win10 is the services that are on by default and take 48h to settle down (upgrading every store app I never use, doing a full AV scan...). It makes it painful to use in a VM as the VM is unusable when you boot it clean or after a long time shut down. Would it be too much to ask to just “don’t do anything in the background that isn’t obvious and cancellable if it uses any disk, cpu or network resources”?

Re: Microsoft begins work on its 2020 Windows releases in new preview

#30

Post by webmobdev »

fxfan wrote: post #10

The biggest problem with Microsoft is them not sticking to their strength. I was an avid fanboy till Windows 7. This was an OS that could cater to power users- keyboard shortcuts, powershell (shitty console but anyway). They started running after the touch segment and deliberately removed the keyboard interface. They didn't get the app-buyers and the keyboard people (like me) probably left them. Linux is mature now,…

> I can offer one terse advice- don't force stuff on people. Give them options. That was Windows's biggest strenght

100% this! I lost all respect for Microsoft when it tried to be Apple and started becoming more controlling and limiting user options in windows os - no, you will have to force update the OS, no, we will upload all your data to our servers and spy on you, no, the OS needs a touch interface even if it is on a desktop pc, and so on ...

Apple atleast offers some benefits with its "controlling" philosophy, but Microsoft just focused on the control aspect. And thus forced me (and I am sure many others) to Linux and MacOs.

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