Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

bradfrost.com

61–70 of 520 posts

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#61
post #22

I agree with a lot of this but magic links are great and I love them. Don't take away my magic login emails.

For my mother-in-law who can't keep her single, reused-everywhere password straight, magic links approximate a miracle. I wish Skype used them so we could save 15 minutes every time we want to video call.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#62
post #11

My list: 1. Don’t have your website take a longer password than your mobile app and then not let correct passwords login inexplicably 2. Don’t break completely on valid passwords because there’s a char you didn’t expect, testing is a good thing in security critical code. 3. Don’t mess up MFA if you’re a financial app logging into a 3rd party bank for a user by trying to replay a token code 4. If you login to any 3rd…

My biggest one is... Requiring users to login with a username or customer id. (instead of email).

My biggest (related) one is…

In the sign-up process, validate the email (don't trust the user). I get a lot of emails that companies never validated, including for a while, from Wells Fargo.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#64

Imo one key point is missing: Don't give users the option authenticate via Google or Facebook. While it may be convenient at signup, it creates an unneeded dependency and confusion if you forget how you log into a certain site.

It is funny how trends shift. A few years ago there was a glutton of articles telling us that we cannot do authentication correction, and to just offer single-sign-on via Facebook/Google instead. Now everyone is back to doing their own home-grown, and Facebook/Google authentication is seen as bloat.

Rather than trends, I picture waves of bad advice that surge forward and then are slowly retracted.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#65
post #59

Imo one key point is missing: Don't give users the option authenticate via Google or Facebook. While it may be convenient at signup, it creates an unneeded dependency and confusion if you forget how you log into a certain site.

It's convenient at signup and every login, and with a company Google Apps account, especially convenient when a person joins or leaves!

also, you skip email validation (which is a PITA) and google store's the user password instead of yourself.

kind of a win win imho.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#66

Imo one key point is missing: Don't give users the option authenticate via Google or Facebook. While it may be convenient at signup, it creates an unneeded dependency and confusion if you forget how you log into a certain site.

A lot of our users would complain that writing on our product support forum was hard.

Since we added those option, the friction is gone.

People who need help that can be boiled down to "Did you plug it in? Is the battery full? What about turning it off and on again" have a hard time understanding how to register an account. Thinking of a strong password and then figuring out how to click on the confirmation link in their emails is apparently the hardest thing to do.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyone is happy with depending on a password manager? Because having 100 different passwords and having to rotate those isn't going to happen any other way.

There is no reason anyone needs 100 different passwords and/or those passwords to rotate. This is terrible advice, you don't need it and you shouldn't do it. As of current, haveibeenpwned hasn't found any breaches connected to my current email address, which I switched to around three years ago. Which is to highlight: Most breached password data is really, really old . A surprising number of breaches come via an emai…

That's dangerous advice. Having access to some (or a combination of) "less-secure" accounts could allow an attacker to get enough personal information to escalate privileges through reset fields, social engineering in customer support, or just plain weird interactions between accounts.

Besides, most people have enough "important" logins (social media, email, amazon, bank(s), computer, cloud accounts) and some have lots that there's no good reason not to use a password manager. Even with 6 passwords to remember (plus a 7th for all the non-sensitive accounts), it's hard to make them unique enough, and if you end up with a system it's pretty easy to infer the rest of the passwords.

Imagine this scenario: you are an average person. You have 90 accounts each requiring a password [1]. 5 of them you deem sensitive enough to have their own password and 85 of them share a password. One of those 85 is compromised. Now you'll spend all day stressing out whether one of those 85 accounts, in hindsight, is actually something you care about at least to some extent. Desperately trying to remember whether there were any other accounts that you should've secured better. (Anecdotally, this has happened to me before a password manager: I had different logins for important stuff and the same for non-important stuff; it's also happened to most of my friends at some point.)

Or you can use a password manager. Once you do have a password manager, you can go ahead and have unique random logins for everything, there's no extra effort needed. 2FA is another important security measure.

In regards to rotation, I agree, and NIST doesn't even recommend forced rotation anymore[2].

[1] https://blog.dashlane.com/infographic-online-overload-its-wo...

[2] https://pages.nist.gov/800-63-3/sp800-63b.html#memsecretver

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So everyone is happy with depending on a password manager? Because having 100 different passwords and having to rotate those isn't going to happen any other way.

There is no reason anyone needs 100 different passwords and/or those passwords to rotate. This is terrible advice, you don't need it and you shouldn't do it. As of current, haveibeenpwned hasn't found any breaches connected to my current email address, which I switched to around three years ago. Which is to highlight: Most breached password data is really, really old . A surprising number of breaches come via an emai…

But with a password manager, you don't need to make that distinction. If it's trivial to make all passwords unique, why not do it?

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#69
How do people feel about the passwordless option discussed in the article?. I feel like it can be done smoothly by:

- giving the user a link to their email service

- providing a link in the email that completes the auth flow, no need to copy paste anything.

Re: Don’t Get Clever with Login Forms

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is quite useful however with some federated auth flows, where you just need the email to see where to send them for the actual auth (e.g. Office365 and SAML login), otherwise you'd needlessly be entering your password. I also much prefer it to the previous way e.g. Office365 worked, where once you'd tabbed away from the email box, they'd detect you needed to be redirected and send you off, whilst most people had…

Pretty sure that is why... you enter your username and it checks to see what authentication flow to use, if it's a password flow then you get a password screen. Pisses me off too

[deleted]
Post reply on HN