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Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

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Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#31

Post by weiming »

melling wrote: post #25
weiming wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many debates I read online today assume that the city was going to hand Amazon a $3b check. Some sort of misunderstanding of how taxes/tax subsidies work.

So, what you’re saying is that there’s not currently $3 billion saved that can now be invested in the schools, subways, etc.

Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b.

Now the city receives $0.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#32

Post by minikites »

rubyfan wrote: post #4

Have they answered where do the 25,000 jobs go now?

https://twitter.com/akarl_smith/status/1096123735935987712

If New York was willing to give $3 billion to Amazon, maybe New York can now use that money to hire 25,000 workers.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#33

Post by r_smart »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #5

Agree with the article. The economists can argue all day about how the equation will work out to be a net profit to NYC regardless of subsidies, but that seems short-sighted. Every decision can not be reduced to a profit/loss question. One company should not have bargaining power over an entire city, and they certainly should not get special economic treatment over others. It points to and perpetuates an unhealthy po…

I agree with some of what you're saying, but it's a mistake to just lump all of the government in as one huge entity. NYC != 'the government'.

|Using that when its convenient and forgetting about it later is just not ethical.

The government is all too happy to remind them, and tell them what is owed. Let's not forget who actually has the monopoly on power / violence in this arrangement. If you think the government shouldn't be offering special treatment, and shouldn't be picking who gets a competitive advantage, I agree, but let's not pretend like the government at any level is somehow at the mercy of any business. The worst the business can do is pack up and go somewhere else. Any government entity can do much much worse to the business.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#34

Post by icebraining »

minikites wrote: post #26
oliwarner wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One company should not have bargaining power over an entire city But they do and I don't think there's any escaping that. It's natural. The problem comes with the various state and local governments wanting to subsidise things like this. They can offer things that perhaps objectively disadvantage the nation but help locally. Of course NY is go bend over backwards to get Amazon HQ2. All those people. All that income…

>But they do and I don't think there's any escaping that. It's natural. Lots of things are natural but part of the point of civilization and organized society is to control what is natural for the benefit of the population at large.

The parent's poster was all about how to control it.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#35

Post by minikites »

weiming wrote: post #31
melling wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what you’re saying is that there’s not currently $3 billion saved that can now be invested in the schools, subways, etc.

Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b. Now the city receives $0.

You're assuming $X was larger than $3 billion, which isn't a given. Look at sports stadium deals, hosting the Olympics, or Wisconsin's giveaway to Foxconn. The city/state budget is usually the loser in these deals.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#36

Post by anonu »

Antitrust in America is broken. It may be time to breakup companies like Amazon and Facebook - or at least take a very hard look at whether breaking them up would stimulate more competition and innovation in our marketplace.

If Amazon is upset that it didn't get subsidies and open arms to come to NYC - then it should probably move elsewhere. There are many other communities and cities that could benefit from any benefits way more than NYC.

NYC is right to stand up to the creeping influence of mono-culture.

The other day I was walking through the West Village in NYC. I'd say a good 30% of stores are shuttered. I stopped in front of a interior design store and looked through the window - and just spent 5 minutes browsing the amazing collection of whatever they were offering. You can't do that online. Instead, you are funneled towards the item that has the best reviews (maybe fake) or has been optimized for cheapness - and everyone buys it.

/ end rant

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#37

Post by jinushaun »

After all the pageantry Amazon picks the #1 and #2 most obvious cities for HQ2. Which leads me (and many others) to believe that they would have expanded their NYC presence anyway. Amazon already has THOUSANDS of employees in the NYC area. It was inevitable.

What rubs people the wrong way was that Amazon got a tax break it didn’t need.

And even after this deal has “died”, Amazon will STILL continue to expand in NYC! Certainly won’t be Jersey.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#38

Post by [deleted] »

minikites wrote: post #35
weiming wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b. Now the city receives $0.

You're assuming $X was larger than $3 billion, which isn't a given. Look at sports stadium deals, hosting the Olympics, or Wisconsin's giveaway to Foxconn. The city/state budget is usually the loser in these deals.

[deleted]

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#39

Post by lr4444lr »

paulgb wrote: post #24
KevinEldon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NY made the offer to Amazon. If citizens of NY don't want their government to be able to bargain with a business or organization on an individual level then they should take that power away from government.

Something I haven't been able to find: did NYC actually withdraw anything promised for Amazon to back out, or did Amazon just get buyer's remorse after seeing the mixed reaction the city had?

Excellent question. It is hard to believe that only now did Amazon start caring so much about its already tarnished public image with worker rights and whatnot that they'd roll over so quickly on such a huge deal. I surmise that it was the mayor's office that called off their part of the deal, based on the public statements. The governor had been lacing into the recalcitrant lawmakers who joined the protestors. Both are rumored to want a 2020 Whitehouse run, but the mayor also has a much more public reputation as a "progressive" to defend. This is just my speculating.

Re: Did New York Lose Anything with Amazon’s Rejection? It’s Complicated

#40

Post by Slartie »

weiming wrote: post #31
melling wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what you’re saying is that there’s not currently $3 billion saved that can now be invested in the schools, subways, etc.

Over some years, Amazon was to pay some $X in taxes. But they were given a break to pay $3b less assuming some goals are met. The city receives $X - $3b. Now the city receives $0.

But don't forget that they also need to invest $0 into additional infrastructure necessary to accomodate Amazon and deal with various other problems their presence would have created.
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