Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Bought a House with Solar Panels

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 298 posts

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#261

Post by justaguyhere »

rrauenza wrote: post #10
AlphaWeaver wrote: post #5

>One former Bay Area employee sent me a Sunrun training manual he said was current when he resigned in April 2017. It’s called “Power Play 2.0: The Guide to Successfully Sell Sunrun.” (The company confirmed its authenticity.) It instructs salespeople to sow distrust in and disdain for traditional utilities and appeal to customers’ emotions. Over 61 pages, pain is cited at least 31 times and fear at least a dozen. Whe…

We got a quote from sun run - it made us uncomfortable how all of their numbers assumed ridiculous utility rate increases. And our gut said we should just wait and purchase instead. A few years later solar prices came down and we made a purchase with an installer whose main business was purchase, not lease. edit: I responded below, but my complaint isn't with their price -- it's their scare tactics and fuzzy break ev…

Customers of Sunrun and other companies must sign binding arbitration clauses, barring them from suing or joining in class actions

This is how unchecked capitalism looks like. How can this be legal? How is it that so many companies (Google, Sun Run...) are able to get away with forcing their employees and customers to sign away their rights like this? This is in addition to the fact that even if someone has the balls to sue Google and others, it would take massive resources, so most people aren't going to sue in the first place.

Is it this bad in other western countries? or is it just the U.S?

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#264

Post by fsloth »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #5

>One former Bay Area employee sent me a Sunrun training manual he said was current when he resigned in April 2017. It’s called “Power Play 2.0: The Guide to Successfully Sell Sunrun.” (The company confirmed its authenticity.) It instructs salespeople to sow distrust in and disdain for traditional utilities and appeal to customers’ emotions. Over 61 pages, pain is cited at least 31 times and fear at least a dozen. Whe…

Yeah. Unfortunately sowing fear is a really common marketing gimmick.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#265

Post by briandear »

justaguyhere wrote: post #261
rrauenza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got a quote from sun run - it made us uncomfortable how all of their numbers assumed ridiculous utility rate increases. And our gut said we should just wait and purchase instead. A few years later solar prices came down and we made a purchase with an installer whose main business was purchase, not lease. edit: I responded below, but my complaint isn't with their price -- it's their scare tactics and fuzzy break ev…

Customers of Sunrun and other companies must sign binding arbitration clauses, barring them from suing or joining in class actions This is how unchecked capitalism looks like. How can this be legal? How is it that so many companies (Google, Sun Run...) are able to get away with forcing their employees and customers to sign away their rights like this? This is in addition to the fact that even if someone has the balls…

So don’t buy from Sunrun. It’s that simple. That’s how capitalism works. If they ask you to sign something as a condition of using their service, simply decline and they lose the sale.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#267

Post by briandear »

alasdair_ wrote: post #248
chii wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the business suffer losses instead of everyone pay subsidies?

>Why can't the business suffer losses instead of everyone pay subsidies? Because the old model of coal power plants makes people pay in other ways (pollution). Subsidies are reasonable if it means that the negative externalities are diminished.

So let’s subsidize nuclear instead. Far more efficient than millions of people buying solar panels. Properly designed nuclear is proven technology.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#268

Post by URSpider94 »

imgabe wrote: post #13

When you get down into the meat of how the tax credits and Sunrun's financing work it's astonishing. Essentially it sounds like Sunrun's investors are paying to install solar panels on your house so they can claim the tax credit to offset their own income. Meanwhile you are paying Sunrun for the electricity generated by the solar panels. There doesn't seem to be much benefit for the homeowner. You're better off buyin…

The benefit to the homeowner is defined cost and no up-front payment, which is a big benefit to most people. When you say you can buy the system with credit, you assume that the buyer can get a loan for the $15k cost of putting the system in - for many people, that’s not easy. Additionally, if you buy a solar system and anything breaks, you are on the hook for the repair cost.

Also keep in mind that these are people with very, very low electric bills - a small home in a Mediterranean climate, no need for either heat or A/C. Solar is really overkill for them. For a family with a bigger house and higher electricity usage (maybe an EV in the driveway?) there would be plenty of room for both Sunrun and the homeowner to come out ahead.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#269

Post by URSpider94 »

itronitron wrote: post #215
michaelt wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're better off buying the system up front if possible When I looked into it in my country, the payback time for a solar system was 10+ years, and estate agents were reportedly estimated they added nothing to the value of the house. Buying is all very well if you're sure to stay in the same place for 10+ years - but if you move in that time, better hope you place a high value on feeling you've helped the environmen…

You don't want it to add value to your house because then you will end up paying higher property taxes on a higher appraised value. The benefit of solar can be stated to a prospective buyer as X dollars less on utility bills each year.

Huh??

I buy a house for $100k. I put $15k of solar panels on it. I go to sell it a year later, and sell it for $100k. That is what it means for solar panels not to add value - I just lost my $15k investment.

Incidentally, that appears to be the case for residential solar in CA. It doesn’t factor in appreciably to the price of a home.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#270

Post by URSpider94 »

imgabe wrote: post #23
BeetleB wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You're better off buying the system up front if possible or even financing it and claiming the tax credit yourself. Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. As for the tax credit, you do get it in the form of a discounted price. Over here, that's how all the solar companies pitch it. They'll install it for cheap, but the condition is that you pay them a big fraction of the tax credit the foll…

> Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. Ok? That is standard practice when you own a home. You are responsible for all the maintenance on your home. What is scary about solar panel maintenance? I assume they have to be cleaned every so often. Anything else? Maybe you have an electrician come and retorque the connections once a year? It's not like they have a lot of moving parts assuming it'…

It’s risk. You put in a $25k system, then the inverter blows and it’s useless to you until you spend $3k for a new one. That does happen, probably a few percent per year chance. If you don’t have $3k lying around, then you are one failure away from effectively losing $25k.
Post reply on HN