Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#711

Post by prepend » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

asdff wrote: post #472

prepend wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect the number of tech workers and high income workers will be much less without hq2. Although I hope that it’s a bustling tech hub in 5 years.

Not all of those 25k jobs are highly paid tech workers. There will still be highly paid workers living there as they do now, commuting to Manhattan.

Not all, but very many will be highly paid.

My comment is about tech workers working in that area. I think this is better for that area to have highly paid workers in remote queens who can live or commute in.

There’s already a ton of tech companies in Manhattan and Brooklyn. The new change would be to have a tech hub in LIC.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#712

Post by Schnitz » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

Good riddance

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#713

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

jhall1468 wrote: post #599

csallen wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of us would say that to a stranger in real life without expecting to cause great offense.

I would, but then I'm the only one that knows the tone it was said in (at least in my head), which wasn't condescending, but more bemused sarcasm. And that's the fundamental issue with moderating rhetorical devices. You're assuming you know how the other person intended to say something. Moderating personal attacks is easy. Because that's not a rhetorical device and it's intent is quite clear.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#714

Post by balls187 » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

will_brown wrote: post #588

jfnixon wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the company that owns vast swaths of cloud computing space doesn't have talent to back it up? Amazon is way more dominant than LeBron in their respective businesses.

I don’t know about having more talent, but amazon definitely has more ego...At least LeBron didn’t demand special tax deals and non-public data from cities to bring his talents.

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

First, state income tax is exactly that, income tax imposed by the state, and governed by the state. There may be local jurisdictions that impose additional income tax but any savings there would be trivial.

While sports are important to the local economy, my understanding is that they are relatively minor at the state level.

Second, LeBron (and other athletes) earn playing income in every jurisdiction they play in, not based solely on the jurisdiction that the team is based in.

This means they are responsible for filing taxes in each of these jurisdiction.

In addition to playing income, they make money through endorsements and other investments. These are considered income in whatever state they claim is their residence.

It's in a players interest to establish a residence in an area with favorable tax laws.

Cities may try to woo elite players to join them, but tax savings isn't very compelling.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#715

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

jcranberry wrote: post #565

bko wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new Yorkers supported the project even when told about the subsidies. It's a vocal minority that sank the project https://www.wsj.com/articles/majority-of-new-yorkers-support...

How about New Yorkers who lived in Queens?

Queens: 55% support, 39% oppose

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/14/amazon-kills-plan-bui...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#716

Post by cco » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

clydethefrog wrote: post #482

nodesocket wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't understand the logic of politicians such as Ocasio-Cortez. Amazon HQ was going to bring 25,000 high paying jobs to the area, providing growth and opportunities for her constituents. Her argument against is that the Amazon HQ would further gentrification and she was appalled by the government subsidies. So she'd rather limit new growth, prevent new jobs, and stifle wealth to prevent luxury condos and Star…

Gentrification is the opposite of people moving up the economic ladder - it's the influx of more affluent residents.

Where in your mind would the affluent residents live?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#717

Post by yourbandsucks » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:48 PM UTC

eanzenberg wrote: post #681

yourbandsucks wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And vastly more of them are not on the Forbes list. People have done studies on income mobility and inter-generational income mobility. The studies say that it's getting worse, not better. Yes, people can move up/down, but most don't, and it's happening less over time.

The US (I assume you're talking about the US) intragenerational mobility is actually quite strong, meaning people have the ability to impact their own economic outcomes if they choose, or in other words, the American dream (TM). Decreased intergenerational mobility in the US is actually a function of decreased fraction of families earning below 100k, meaning, less people by fraction in the lower and middle class as t…

Probably better to measure by where people are on the income distribution than above/below arbitrary points like 100k.

Most of the research I've seen uses quintiles as a proxy for "class".

If you look downthread, I've linked some that disagrees with you re: USA vs other anglosphere countries.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#718

Post by pesmhey » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:48 PM UTC

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #637

andosteinmetz wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What New York City do you live in? I have never been offered, nor do I know anybody who's been offered a month's free rent on signing a lease. Places that do this are overcharging and driving up rents. Your comment may just be emphasizing the fact that there are multiple "New Yorks." And I suspect the New York that Amazon HQ2 would benefit would be the New York that pays too much to live in a glass tower and gets off…

What is the point of this comment? It combines some smug self-satisfaction about "Your New York" with your ridiculously insulated anecdata about the first month discount many apartments give. A 5 second Google search shows hundreds of results for 1 month free rent in apartment listings. What exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

The point is pretty clear: there are people out there who don’t even know what 1-month free rent is. The contribution to the conversation is an illumination of the divide between some generalized types of people in New York. The relevance to the OP is that there may be some wildly different opinions on Amazon’s perceived actions based on which generalized type of New Yorker you are.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#719

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:50 PM UTC

sammycdubs wrote: post #669

rhegart wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Majority of the incentives are from Amazon’s taxes. 27B in economic activity for 3B in tax breaks for just 10 years is wayyy better than almost every other corporate deal. Better than Tesla for sure. That 3B will no longer be generated. You want a net 24B or a net 0B? New Yorkers chose 0

It's New York City, we don't need to give the largest company in the world a huge discount to do business here. It's not like the economic development of NYC is dependent on Amazon. It's a central hub to so many industries because of its infrastructure, talent, connection to capital markets etc, not because of handing out discounts.

> we don't need to give the largest company in the world a huge discount to do business here

Looks like you do, because now we have - no discount, no business.

> It's not like the economic development of NYC is dependent on Amazon

Of course, losing several billions of added value and 25K jobs won't kill the economy of the size of New York. Just as shooting oneself in the foot won't kill most healthy people. But keep at it, and sooner or later there would be a surprising development that the health is not what it once was...

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#720

Post by JCharante » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

J5892 wrote: post #598

atoav wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is always vocal minoirities who do things, even with very popular topics. Animal cruelty? There is only a vocal minority who takes a public stance, despite this beeing a very clear cut issue in terms of public opinion. Migration is the other way round: most people don't give a fuck, but have a loud vocal base that will even hurt themselves to make a point and you will be heard.

Animal cruelty isn't a great analogy. It's not a vocal minority, it's a vocal subset of the majority. A vocal minority is when the opponents of a popular viewpoint are louder than its proponents.

Animal cruelty is a great analogy because the people who oppose it, which are the minority, are more vocal than those who are proponents of it, which make up the majority.