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Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#541

Post by gipp »

ctvo wrote: post #529
gipp wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/newyork/new... ?

What are we discussing here? Yes, Google wants to hire more people in NYC. In NYC there are are tax incentive plans for relocating and hiring that companies can apply for if they qualify. Just because Google doesn’t include that portion in their announcement does not mean they won’t pursue it if they can. A good article would be one where Google states it won’t take any tax incentives even if it qualifies for it.

I was only responding to the claim that Google had made no real commitments.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#542

Post by jfnixon »

lkrubner wrote: post #528
koheripbal wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

This is incorrect: " that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all " The opposite is true, 100% of those taxes will be paid by some other business. Maybe you could make your argument about the New York City of the 1970s, but you sure as heck can not make that argument about the New York City of 2019. New York City is not starving for investment, rather, its biggest challenge nowadays is managing its fast growth. Other busin…

So why did NYC bother to compete for HQ2?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#543

Post by sokoloff »

lkrubner wrote: post #528
koheripbal wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

This is incorrect: " that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all " The opposite is true, 100% of those taxes will be paid by some other business. Maybe you could make your argument about the New York City of the 1970s, but you sure as heck can not make that argument about the New York City of 2019. New York City is not starving for investment, rather, its biggest challenge nowadays is managing its fast growth. Other busin…

If that’s the case, why would the NY politicians put that money on the table? They did so voluntarily.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#544

Post by [deleted] »

frontloadpro wrote: post #362
rsj_hn wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think NYC (or SF or any high cost of living area) is a crazy place to put HQ2. In terms of subsidies, while it's easy to dunk on Amazon, and no business should be getting subsidies IMO, there is a real issue here: Cost of Living in NY is higher and Amazon will have to pay higher wages if it puts jobs there rather than a place like Nashville. That's higher wages for the same job. Pretty much every company has a cost…

Less pay sounds good until you see the talent that comes with less pay. Junior devs and low performing seniors. Amazon claimed my city didn't have enough talent. What they meant is that 6 figures is too much to pay per programmer.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#545

Post by apendleton »

hbosch wrote: post #427
apendleton wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least one of the following would have to be true for that to follow: new people would have to move to NYC specifically for Amazon (or to fill vacancies created by people leaving other companies to work at Amazon), or otherwise-unemployed people would have to become employed because of Amazon, or the people taking Amazon jobs would have to be paid more than they otherwise would. None of these would be guaranteed, t…

> new people would have to move to NYC specifically for Amazon (or to fill vacancies created by people leaving other companies to work at Amazon) This has certainly been true for Seattle, fwiw.

It has, but is almost undoubtedly slowing as Seattle becomes more expensive and housing becomes more scarce (in other words, as it becomes New York-like). Massive inbound migration was possible because pre-Amazon, housing in Seattle was comparatively plentiful and cheap.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#546

Post by nova22033 »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #518
nova22033 wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That tax break is real money. Money that your community will not be able to spend on education, infrastructure, police, parks, You run a store. You put up a sign offering a 50% discount. I walk in the store and you tell me there is no discount. I walk out. Guess what? You didn't get any money and I didn't get anything out of the deal. Amazon backing out of HQ2 doesn't mean you get to keep the money. You never had th…

What if you came in and bought something at a discount and then took way more than you payed for... That's more like what they were going to do.

How is Amazon taking more than what they paid for? Think of a building with apartments for rent. Half the apartments are empty and the building is falling apart because the rent doesn't cover repairs. The building manager offers new renters 20% off for a year. The existing renters protest and the new renters back out. You don't suddenly end up with more money to cover repairs.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#547

Post by NathanKP »

lenzm wrote: post #510
koheripbal wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "tax break" is just a reduction in taxes that otherwise wouldn't be paid at all . It still means a profit for the city. It's not like NYC is paying Amazon to come to NYC. NYC would still make huge tax revenues from additional sales, real estate, income taxes, and corporate taxes. Now they're turning that all away. It's such an irrational decision that if I were Amazon, it would raise a big red flag for me as well.…

It certainly means revenue for the city but we don't know that it means profit. All of those people are going to generate trash, take the subway and consume city services. Why shouldn't Amazon pay like everyone else?

Let me explain it in terms that any New Yorker should be able to understand: If you are a New Yorker you are no doubt familiar with the concept of "one month free rent". Most buildings in NYC will give you one month free when you sign your lease. If a building doesn't give you that offer its probably not as tempting as another nearby building that does. Yet the "one month free" isn't a losing money proposition for the building because they continue to make rent money from you for a long time after the free month.

NYC was basically offering the same thing to Amazon: "hey come live in our city, we will give you a temporary tax reduction, in exchange for a TON of money over the next X years".

Overall the city wouldn't have lost money, it would have gained many billions of dollars of additional money in the future in exchange for an initial 2 billion reduction.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#548

Post by csallen »

dekhn wrote: post #487
dang wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was referring to feel free to pat yourself on the back for not "falling for it" , which was a gratuitous bit of personal sarcasm, just the sort of thing which acidifies online discourse. Also, arguably, the bit about an attempt to revise history is an uncharitable escalation (though not personal).

enough people have chimed in response to you to say this is legitimate discourse within the HN rules.

I agree with Dan, and I wouldn't have commented had I not read this comment. It's easy to underestimate the happy-but-silent majority.

Dan was spot on when saying that this acidity compounds. It leads to a vicious circle of increasingly hostile comments unless someone decides to be the bigger person and break the chain. Having a neutral third party step in to play this role (i.e. a moderator) makes this chain-breaking far more likely and works to all of our benefit.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#549

Post by pzone »

jdhn wrote: post #109
OldFatCactus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have a link to that data?

Here you go[0]. Some highlights: 1. $2.988 billion in state/city subsidies (so ~$48,000 per job) 2. The state estimated that Amazon will generate $27.5 billion in state and city revenue over 25 years, a 9:1 ratio of revenue to subsidies. Using the numbers above, we can calculate that the state would break even in roughly 3 years if they're correct. [0] https://ny.curbed.com/2018/11/16/18098589/amazon-hq2-nyc-que...

The subsidies themselves would have been given to Amazon over the course of several years. NY would be in the black after no more than a year.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#550

Post by [deleted] »

ng12 wrote: post #142
Alex3917 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's expansion doesn't require its employees to live in a part of the city that lacks adequate schools and parks. Whereas if you work in LIC it's not like you can really commute into the city from New Jersey or Stamford.

What are you talking about? LIC has lots of schools and parks. It's a very residential neighborhood. > Whereas if you work in LIC it's not like you can really commute into the city from New Jersey or Stamford. Why not? Take the Path to the E or the metro north to the 7.

[deleted]
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