Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#121

Post by supernova87a » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

As much as the anti-gentrification politicians would claim a small victory, this is a loss for NYC and the future development / resilience of its economic base.

Cities will keep on losing this kind of battle until some form of government or policy arises to counter the power of corporations (which are de facto increasingly taking the role of governments). Under our current regulations and incentives, I'm actually glad to see Amazon flex its political capability and teach NYC a lesson in what happens when you let vocal minority dictate public policy. Let examples like this teach us how broken our laws are.

Note I am equally glad to see some day that government (federal, state) come up with policies that stop cities and states from undercutting each other to get a temporary revenue / population / popularity boost at the expense of giving away the farm just to get it (until you find out it wasn't worth it, and get to try and remember that at the next election). Or god forbid, actually create policies that in the long-term stimulate as many jobs as a corporation might in a single swoop.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#122

Post by raiyu » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

tmh79 wrote: post #108

raiyu wrote: post #70

After being a resident of NYC for 30 years and seeing the city change and become a technology hub and just a financial center I think this is a real loss for NYC. It would also be in Long island City which would provide a huge influx of new workers and move that neighborhood forward in development rapidly. The down side would be that it would push some residents and business owners out but this is simply a fact of li…

the issue for me is that the main benefit of the tax breaks is capitalized by owners of AMZN stock, mainly Bezos, the wealthiest man in the world. AMZN is going to grow somewhere, they should pay taxes where they grow.

Yeah but they will get that tax break regardless at least this we can continue to make NYC a powerhouse tech center.

And it's in Long island City not in Manhattan like Facebook and Google.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#123

Post by bluedino » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

So who are the 'State and local politicians who refuse to work with us"?

Ocasio-Cortez, Gianaris, van Bramer...?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#124

Post by mc32 » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

skh wrote: post #71

endofcapital wrote: post #46

The big tech giants seem to be A/B testing different ways of opposing and working with the government. Sooner or later these tests are going to start showing they have more power than the government, and they will start ignoring laws because they are irrelevant to increasing whatever metric is important this quarter. This may have already happened, it's really hard to say.

My current pet idea is that the Electoral College ought to be replaced with the CEOs of the Fortune 500 companies. That way we could do away with the facade that presidential elections currently create.

What facade? CEOs? I don’t think Dems or Repubs would like to see that. Definitely not independents.

We’d get the most pro-business candidate every time. Not that any candidate has been anti/business, but can you imagine, it’d be pro-business on steroids. Schultz, One of the Waltons, corporate raiders?

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#125

Post by m_ke » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

I wonder if Cuomo and De Blasio will try to save face by letting other companies bid on the space instead.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#126

Post by thisisweirdok » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:13 PM UTC

This Amazon process has been complete shit for every idiot city who jumped on (my city included). I call the mayor's line here to leave messages about stuff like this every time it happens and say "see, you dummies this was a bad deal"

This has happened with Amazon, Casinos, GE, The Olympics, F1 racing... cities need to not be so fucking desperate to sell out their residents to the highest bidder.

I'd be more amenable to a property tax increase than any of this garbage.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#127

Post by pastor_elm » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #14

Of all the places, why did NYC offer Amazon subsidies? NYC actually has too many good jobs for the amount of space... I am also proud of my cantankerous fellow New Yorkers who fought this.

They didn't. NY State offers a 'package' to all companies that move in. That's all they really got in terms of tax breaks. NYC only allowed it to bypass some building reviews/regulations.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#128

Post by elicash » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:14 PM UTC

supernova87a wrote: post #121

As much as the anti-gentrification politicians would claim a small victory, this is a loss for NYC and the future development / resilience of its economic base. Cities will keep on losing this kind of battle until some form of government or policy arises to counter the power of corporations (which are de facto increasingly taking the role of governments). Under our current regulations and incentives, I'm actually gla…

> this is a loss for NYC and the future development / resilience of its economic base.

I don't see any reason to prioritize the "economic base" over the people currently living there. Those things do not necessarily go hand-in-hand. They can, but often do not. Those elected officials seem, to me, to be representing the best interests of the people who voted for them. What's best for the tax base of a certain geography is often at odds with the people currently living somewhere.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#129

Post by djsumdog » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

OldFatCactus wrote: post #96

barry-cotter wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid as the subsidies were your attitude is vile. We have a technology for increasing housing, they’re called apartments. New York does not lack space, it lacks enough housing. If this kind of crap goes on New York will get as bad as California where every municipality wants to build offices and nowhere wants to build housing. This delight in pulling up the ladder after you and making it harder for people to get jo…

There is not a shortage of Software jobs here. You're also misrepresenting the intent of his comment.

So if anything, Amazon will make the market worse for all other companies by sucking up a lot of the talent and causing a rise in wages. It might be good short term for software devs, but like Seattle and The Valley, it hurts absolutely every other industry. The person in your IGA or Starbucks often has to commute via bus or train or (god forbid) car over an hour out just so they can afford to barely make it, while tech people can pay the $2k ~ $4k a month for a 1 bedroom within 15 minutes of work.

New York doesn't need that too.

Re: Amazon Pulls Out of Planned New York City Campus

#130

Post by untog » Thu, Feb 14, 2019, 5:15 PM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #14

Of all the places, why did NYC offer Amazon subsidies? NYC actually has too many good jobs for the amount of space... I am also proud of my cantankerous fellow New Yorkers who fought this.

A clarification: NYC didn't offer Amazon subsidies. New York State did. That's really the core of the tension - the whole deal was negotiated in secret then announced to the world as a finished product. That tends not to earn you goodwill with city politicians you deliberately excluded from the process.