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I Bought a House with Solar Panels

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Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#61

Post by Dylan16807 »

mchannon wrote: post #8

A few points this person probably didn't think about: •Nobody knows what California electricity prices are going to do in the next 20 years. By terminating the system, they just traded certainty for volatility. With that attitude I hope they financed using an ARM loan. •They whined about how expensive it was, but also expressed a desire to have one or two kids someday. When you have kids, your electric bills tend to…

> Nobody knows what California electricity prices are going to do in the next 20 years.

That's true but with the way most utility costs have been dropping, the rates are probably not going to skyrocket.

> using more power

The problem is the rate being too high. More use doesn't help the problem.

> duck curve

Sure, but not very important to this choice.

> A silent majority of people think PV panels are ugly. Like, hideously ugly.

Do you have evidence of how common that is? Does that include installations that are well-integrated into the roof?

> cell plan

A typical cell phone contract breaking fee is $350, with some pro-rating. This roughly covers the cost of a phone discount. They don't try to charge you $1400 for the entire remaining contract term.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#62

Post by throwaway5752 »

I don't know enough about Sunrun or the author here, but I will say that - as a general principle - when you see a human interest piece about a multi-billion dollar company with close to 15% of their shares sold short (https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RUN/key-statistics) then I would take it with a grain of salt and question what is being presented.

edit: and you have to get more than halfway through to see the author managed to take the path of maximal pain: "Sunrun calls our insistence that Jug’s trust buy out and remove the system “incredibly unique and rare.” It’s far more common for home sellers to transfer the lease to the buyer—Sunrun says 94 percent of customers do this—or to prepay the lease and leave the hardware on the roof for the next owner to use. I’ve been kicking myself ever since I learned about this latter option. It would have saved the estate around $12,000 and allowed us to support solar and get “free” electricity, even as Sunrun remained responsible for maintenance and repairs."

edit 2: "On consumer review sites and in local news reports, rueful customers warn others to stay away from TPO solar offered by Sunrun and other companies" - is that true of everything, and none cited? What if this was an article about car dealership?

edit 3: Having finished the article (and having never heard of Sunrun prior to this) it has the feel of a hit-piece. I don't think it is necessarily (author seems to have a solid investigative journalism track record), but it cherry picks very small sets of data without context and it frames things in what seems like a maximally negative way. Not sure if their experience with their specific bad experience and Bloomberg's comp based on moving markets had anything to do with it.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#63

Post by rconti »

BeetleB wrote: post #21
imgabe wrote: post #13

When you get down into the meat of how the tax credits and Sunrun's financing work it's astonishing. Essentially it sounds like Sunrun's investors are paying to install solar panels on your house so they can claim the tax credit to offset their own income. Meanwhile you are paying Sunrun for the electricity generated by the solar panels. There doesn't seem to be much benefit for the homeowner. You're better off buyin…

>You're better off buying the system up front if possible or even financing it and claiming the tax credit yourself. Up front means no one is responsible for maintenance except you. As for the tax credit, you do get it in the form of a discounted price. Over here, that's how all the solar companies pitch it. They'll install it for cheap, but the condition is that you pay them a big fraction of the tax credit the foll…

Maintenance? I bought solar from a company in San Jose. They guarantee production, they warrantee the installation to be leak-proof, the panels and inverter have factory warrantees.

I guess they won't come over and wash my panels for me, but, no kidding.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#64

Post by jccalhoun »

mcguire wrote: post #27

" ...or to prepay the lease and leave the hardware on the roof for the next owner to use. I’ve been kicking myself ever since I learned about this latter option. It would have saved the estate around $12,000 and allowed us to support solar and get “free” electricity, even as Sunrun remained responsible for maintenance and repairs. " Wouldn't the author have been able to take the price of buying out the lease off thei…

I didn't really understand this part either.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#65

Post by rconti »

CydeWeys wrote: post #55
toomuchtodo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. (Edit: In most cases) Never pay for premium PV panels. The 10-20% premium only nets you an additional 1-2% in generation output. 2. Always get at least three quotes, using energysage: https://www.energysage.com 3. As a residential customer, never sign a PPA. Either pay cash or get a loan 4. Tesla solar customer service is wildly inconsistent. Even as a Tesla investor, I do not recommend them for solar. Sorry for y…

Premium PV panels can be worth it if they look better. My parents paid a bit extra for black rather than blue solar panels (said panels also have higher output), and the house really does look a lot better for it. This can matter come sale time; curbside appearance is very important in real estate.

Black backings produce ever so slightly less than white backsheet, and premium panels can technically be worthwhile if you have limited roof space like we do.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#66

Post by magduf »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #45
someguydave wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The saying "caveat emptor" is thousands of years old. Yes, and the implication of "caveat emptor" is to take a very dim view of the ethics of folks who pitch in this way.

The implication of caveat emptor is to not to take the word of someone selling you something, period.

Sure, but there's a big difference between simply distrusting people who try to sell you stuff, and seeing actual proof that a particular company has truly horrible and evil ethics.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#68

Post by ocdtrekkie »

CompelTechnic wrote: post #49
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the huge issue is that if it's a back-heavy payment scheme: A future buyer will only see the heavier portion. Which makes your house less attractive to a buyer, and devalues your home, which also hurts any potential cost savings.

The growth rate of the payment is 2.9%. This is only very slightly higher than inflation, on average. Also, assuming that the lower home value came true, the original purchaser of the solar installation did put his money where his mouth is, and paid a financial cost to his environmental interests, which is the moral thing to do, regardless of whether he was "tricked" by the negative cash flows showing up in later yea…

Sure, someone is going to have to pay for greener power. But the problem is that Sunrun is claiming it's cheaper, even though it isn't, and that the owner ends up paying both Sunrun's expenses and their profit margin.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#69

Post by jccalhoun »

Maybe it is because it is getting near lunch time but this article seemed really rambling and disjointed. Is it about Sunrun or is it about the industry? Or is it just the author's experience? It seems to be all three cut and pasted together haphazardly.

Re: I Bought a House with Solar Panels

#70

Post by rrauenza »

macspoofing wrote: post #14
rrauenza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We got a quote from sun run - it made us uncomfortable how all of their numbers assumed ridiculous utility rate increases. And our gut said we should just wait and purchase instead. A few years later solar prices came down and we made a purchase with an installer whose main business was purchase, not lease. edit: I responded below, but my complaint isn't with their price -- it's their scare tactics and fuzzy break ev…

To be fair, the cost of solar panels at the time you were considering them was what it was. Someone needed to pay for them. If that someone is Sunrun, they need to recoup those cost and make a return. You can be as creative as you want with the financing, that reality won't change. You could have gotten a bank loan too.

It's not their price I'm complaining about -- it's their financial break even model they pushed claiming huge increases in public utility rates -- which didn't seem realistic given recent history.

It's in line with their scare tactics and emotional push.

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