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“I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

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Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#71
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite - Leftists reframe the question "Why do you need that money?" when the one we should be asking is "Why is the state entitled to it?"

Because very often the answer is "the state enabled you to earn that money in the first place, moving things on its roads, and employing workers educated by its school system, while under the protection of its police force and fire service"

I find it enlightening to discuss with people what they would do if they could unilaterally secede.

I find offering the option quite appealing, in the sense that it would hold government strictly to account if it annoys sufficiently large minorities to warrant large splits.

But what the people opposing taxes often tends to forget is that if you want to argue that society should be organized in a fully voluntary way, then the rest of society don't owe you access to any of their public services either if you're not prepared to agree to their terms for interacting with you.

If someone is ok with taking the consequences of that, then, hey, let them, but in my experience the moment you point out the likely consequences, there is a tendency to start crying about how unfair it would be when other people want to exercise their freedoms to refuse to deal with someone not prepared to pay their share. In other words, most of this boils down to wanting to be free to pick and choose how they interact with wider society, without wanting the rest of society to be able to pick and choose how to interact with them.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#72
post #33
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's 13% - that's about the same as sales tax in many places No, not really.. You're free to choose states with sensible department of revenues. Wyoming has a 4-6% sales tax, nowhere near the 13% you're arguing about. If capgains of 13% is levied upon 10mil, that's 1.3mil.... while Wyoming's 4-6% sales tax is (obviously less than half that) only levied upon actual purchases (which in practice is way lower).

If I'd hit the startup jackpot and found myself with $10M of stock, and wanted to turn it into cash, I think I could afford $1.3M of tax. The remaining $8.7M would keep me pretty comfortable for now.

That's just the bill for state tax (need to consider federal, property, sales tax)

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#73

>If you’re hanging out in California for nine months or more in a year, you’re considered a Californian. But even if you’re there for shorter periods, the state can still consider it your domicile if the fact pattern shows that you’re treating California like your real, true home. And that’s why advisers recommend that the megarich do a ton of sometimes unpleasant things to establish a real domicile elsewhere. This i…

It's fair for states to set residency requirements for some things, such as whether you qualify for in-state tuition, or for hunting and fishing licenses.

But I don't think that change of legal domicile should be anything but an overt act of volition. If you surrender your driver's license from your old state, and take a replacement from your new state, you have implicitly changed your domicile to the new state. But changing that driver's license may just be a concession to the fact that the new state is where you do most of your driving, and your old state might make it too inconvenient to renew licenses when you are physically elsewhere. Inconvenience alone does not make one's home change. You might physically spend 11.5 months out of every year in State X, but you might also have 2 parents, 1 grandparent, 3 siblings, 2 aunts and uncles, 5 first cousins, 15 old friends, and 30 cemetery burial plots for people whom you knew, and years of memories in State Y. I think your domicile is probably State Y, no matter what State X tries to claim.

I have been where I am now for about ten years, but I still don't consider it "home". I'm only here because this is where the job is. I don't know when, exactly, I can ever return "home", or where it might be when I do, but the only places I have lived so far that really felt like "home" so far were Indianapolis and Madison, Wisconsin. Everywhere else has felt like the place belongs to someone else, and I was only allowed to temporarily stay there by some special indulgence.

Any state that tries to tell me that it is my home, whether I want it to be or not, is probably not one that I'd want to be my home.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#75
post #42

I fly out to California 5 days a week for consulting work currently. I live in Texas. So does my wife and dog. My paycheck’s now include the 13% deduction from California :( I’m leaving this project as soon as possible. Would happily pay 13% more for federal income tax FWIW.

Why does a 13% tax to California bother you if a 13 percentage point increase in tax to some other entity doesn’t? Is it dislike of California? Dislike of state taxes? This reminds me of an experiment I read in - I think - Nudge . A random group of people were given the scenario of being at a store and about to buy a box of chocolate for $10. Just before they purchase it they find out they can buy it at a store a few…

Not the grandparent poster, but a 13% increase in Federal income tax would apply to everyone in the country, regardless of where they live, and therefore would be fair. Punishing people who don't live in your state (only commute there for work and have an actual, bona fide residence elsewhere) is not fair.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#76
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, have you ever actually been to California? The infrastructure was all built in the 1960s, and appears to have been abandoned as thoroughly as the Roman aqueduct system after the barbarian invasions. Easily the most corrupt state I've ever seen; most of the money goes to buying votes.

>Easily the most corrupt state I've ever seen Have you ever seen Illinois?

Hey it’s been at least a couple of years since we’ve sent a governor to jail.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#77

I fly out to California 5 days a week for consulting work currently. I live in Texas. So does my wife and dog. My paycheck’s now include the 13% deduction from California :( I’m leaving this project as soon as possible. Would happily pay 13% more for federal income tax FWIW.

How many days in California caused this to be triggered?

Looking at the CA non-resident form, I don't see how you have to pay taxes in CA:

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/individuals/fileRtn/Nonresidents-Part...

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you don't mind the amount of money you're paying, you mind that it's going to a state instead of the federal government? I can't imagine that's a common gripe.

It’s going to a state he doesn’t live in, I think that’s the problem.

I can sort of relate, although that's still BS. I pay income taxes to the locality where my office is located, which is irritating when it comes time to vote and I don't have any say in how that money is spent, since I can't vote in that city. (as if we as individuals ever really have much say about how our tax money is spent)

On the other hand, if the city wasn't there the job wouldn't exist, and nobody is forcing me to work there.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#79

Yeah, the big fear here in Texas is that they're all going to move down here with their California liberal sensibilities and vote in a state income tax here, too.

Without federal taxes pouring in to Texas (replacing/funding things Texas wont and cant due to its tax collection ideeology) where would Texas be?

Why should liberal dimes support hostile Texan ideology? Shouldn't Texas stand on its own 2 feet and stop milking the federal govt?

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#80
post #53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a 13% tax to California bother you if a 13 percentage point increase in tax to some other entity doesn’t? Is it dislike of California? Dislike of state taxes? This reminds me of an experiment I read in - I think - Nudge . A random group of people were given the scenario of being at a store and about to buy a box of chocolate for $10. Just before they purchase it they find out they can buy it at a store a few…

He doesn't live in California so would see no benefit from the CA tax, while he theoretically would from a Fed increase.

He is in California five days a week, including at least 4 nights of sleep. He benefits from the airports, roads, police and fire protection, water, and all other services. He also receives such a high income due to the fact that his employer is based in California.

Why shouldn’t he contribute to the state that is providing him with income and the services to support that income?

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