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“I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

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Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#61

Post by larrywright »

octonion wrote: post #8
tenpies wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 99% of the world would act in the same way if they had the luxury of that problem. I understand why Leftist populists love attributing some sort of exceptional immorality to the wealthy, but people act on incentives. Give them an incentive to leave and they will leave.

If you live in California, you obey California laws or you go to California jail. If you don't agree with what California has decided is necessary for a healthy society, you have states like Mississippi and Louisiana to choose from. Good luck finding a high-paying job there.

See, the thing is the cost of living in those states is actually reasonable. It doesn’t cost $1M for a “starter home”. So we don’t need a “high paying job”, we just need one that pays a reasonable amount.

Also, by all accounts CA doesn’t have a healthy society.

(for the record, I don’t live in the states you mocked, but I live in Illinois which has a similar cost of living)

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#62

Post by cpursley »

pliny wrote: post #16

>On the other hand, Silicon Valley money is made in California and draws on California services. Employees commute to work on taxpayer-funded roads and many studied at taxpayer-funded schools. And one extreme example: When a gunman shot four people on the campus of YouTube last spring, it was San Bruno police that responded to the scene. This argument is scale invariant, you could say that any level of taxation justi…

> how effective the state is at spending the money

Exactly! I'm okay with higher taxes as long as the jurisdictions who collect them are good stewards of the money. First, governments must prove to me that they can efficiency provide promised services before convincing me to hand over more.

How is it that other nations/jurisdictions can have lower taxes than the USA, but still manage to provide for universal healthcare, free education, and a well funded military (Russia with a 13% flat tax and Singapore with a 22% top rate come to mind)?

I just don't understand where the tax money is going in the USA at both federal and state levels. Why do we get such low value for our tax revenue? Also, my problem with tax systems is they are often about "punishment" and politics instead of providing government services...

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#63

Post by justin66 »

tenpies wrote: post #4
AlexandrB wrote: post #3

> The state of California treats capital gains just like any other income, levying a 13.3 percent state tax on sales of stock. For someone sitting on tens of millions of dollars in private stock — life-changing money for some — it’s not a small concern. Yes, it literally is! It's 13% - that's about the same as sales tax in many places and nowhere near AOC's 70% tax. This is greed, plain and simple. 99% of the world w…

And 99% of the world would act in the same way if they had the luxury of that problem. I understand why Leftist populists love attributing some sort of exceptional immorality to the wealthy, but people act on incentives. Give them an incentive to leave and they will leave.

> people act on incentives. Give them an incentive to leave and they will leave.

This is a very silly statement. The small fraction of people who leave has increased a little bit in size.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#64

Post by skh »

kristianc wrote: post #32
tenpies wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 99% of the world would act in the same way if they had the luxury of that problem. I understand why Leftist populists love attributing some sort of exceptional immorality to the wealthy, but people act on incentives. Give them an incentive to leave and they will leave.

Quite - Leftists reframe the question "Why do you need that money?" when the one we should be asking is "Why is the state entitled to it?"

Your question is just as bad. Here’s the framing I prefer.

1. Government is necessary since some things are best run by public services and without a for-profit motive.

2. What are these things?

3. How much money should be raised to properly run these things?

4. What is the optimum tax rate/policy to achieve this goal?

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#65

Post by splendidtube »

jfk13 wrote: post #33
kuhhk wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's 13% - that's about the same as sales tax in many places No, not really.. You're free to choose states with sensible department of revenues. Wyoming has a 4-6% sales tax, nowhere near the 13% you're arguing about. If capgains of 13% is levied upon 10mil, that's 1.3mil.... while Wyoming's 4-6% sales tax is (obviously less than half that) only levied upon actual purchases (which in practice is way lower).

If I'd hit the startup jackpot and found myself with $10M of stock, and wanted to turn it into cash, I think I could afford $1.3M of tax. The remaining $8.7M would keep me pretty comfortable for now.

Except that is just state tax. Add in federal and you’re looking at a combined 50%.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#66

Post by IvyMike »

commandlinefan wrote: post #20

Yeah, the big fear here in Texas is that they're all going to move down here with their California liberal sensibilities and vote in a state income tax here, too.

There's some amount of evidence to the contrary; the group moving is self-selecting and trends conservative.

One example: https://www.newsweek.com/more-native-born-texans-voted-beto-...

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#67

Post by jdavis703 »

justin66 wrote: post #51
Bucephalus355 wrote: post #7

I fly out to California 5 days a week for consulting work currently. I live in Texas. So does my wife and dog. My paycheck’s now include the 13% deduction from California :( I’m leaving this project as soon as possible. Would happily pay 13% more for federal income tax FWIW.

So you don't mind the amount of money you're paying, you mind that it's going to a state instead of the federal government? I can't imagine that's a common gripe.

It’s going to a state he doesn’t live in, I think that’s the problem.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#68

Post by skh »

panzagl wrote: post #53
skh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a 13% tax to California bother you if a 13 percentage point increase in tax to some other entity doesn’t? Is it dislike of California? Dislike of state taxes? This reminds me of an experiment I read in - I think - Nudge . A random group of people were given the scenario of being at a store and about to buy a box of chocolate for $10. Just before they purchase it they find out they can buy it at a store a few…

He doesn't live in California so would see no benefit from the CA tax, while he theoretically would from a Fed increase.

I see now. I was focusing on not being too upset at 13% being taken in one scenario but not being upset if taken in another scenario.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#69

Post by at-fates-hands »

octonion wrote: post #8
tenpies wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 99% of the world would act in the same way if they had the luxury of that problem. I understand why Leftist populists love attributing some sort of exceptional immorality to the wealthy, but people act on incentives. Give them an incentive to leave and they will leave.

If you live in California, you obey California laws or you go to California jail. If you don't agree with what California has decided is necessary for a healthy society, you have states like Mississippi and Louisiana to choose from. Good luck finding a high-paying job there.

> Good luck finding a high-paying job there.

Kansas has the lowest cost of living in the country. You don't need to have a high paying job to be living like a king.

I remember having a two bedroom apartment to myself and paying around $500/month. My two friends who settled there found 3 bedroom, 3 bathroom houses for under $300K. They were able to put down around $40K and had a monthly mortgage of around 1K.

They were both in the tech sector there and were making around 80K each which is pretty low compared to SV or other states, but because the cost of living was so low, they were living rather comfortable.

Re: “I’m moving out of state”: employees are trying to avoid California income tax

#70

Post by IvyMike »

panzagl wrote: post #53
skh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a 13% tax to California bother you if a 13 percentage point increase in tax to some other entity doesn’t? Is it dislike of California? Dislike of state taxes? This reminds me of an experiment I read in - I think - Nudge . A random group of people were given the scenario of being at a store and about to buy a box of chocolate for $10. Just before they purchase it they find out they can buy it at a store a few…

He doesn't live in California so would see no benefit from the CA tax, while he theoretically would from a Fed increase.

> would see no benefit from the CA tax

Well, no benefit except for the 70% of his time he spends there.

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