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Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

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Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#51
I didn't RTFA, but I'm going to chime in anyways.

I think if you're drinking 2 or more diet beverages a day, you probably have a "fuck it" attitude when it comes to your health. And that attitude probably pervades the rest of your decisions you make in your life.

Even the people I know who couldn't care less about their health all talk about not wanting to get cancer from drinking diet sodas, especially those containing aspartame.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#52
post #46
post #11

I wonder whether even if there is a causal link, the diet version will still be healthier (for low values of healthy) than the sugary version. I tend to think so. I would assume the people most likely to drink diet beverages do so to wean themselves off of sugary drinks. That's one of the first steps in getting towards a healthier lifestyle. The article notes this too. A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about…

> A mystery to me is why they haven't asked about consumption of sugary drinks at the same time. That would have allowed to get much more interesting correlations. I suppose because there already is a consensus that sugary drinks are bad for people and cause all the mentioned problems. Now the eye turns on the sugarless ones. However a comparison would be indeed welcome.

It is quite possible that people who drink diet coke also drink coke. So separating the groups could have been interesting.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#53

I concluded a some time ago that soda drinks weren't adding a lot of value for me at all. And I heard some people claim that the artificial sugars actually are not that great for you. 1) they teach your body that sweet stuff has no nutrition, which then becomes a problem when you actually eat sweet stuff 2) sweeteners like aspartame build up in your liver and fat deposits, which may or may not have long term impact.…

On 2 and 3: aspartame metabolizes into the amino acid phenylalanine, a precursor to dopamine and epinephrine[0]. In normal people, breakdown of the upstream neurotransmitters increase when phenylalanine increases, meaning there are no negative effects from it's consumption. It does not store in the liver. There are some diseases that involve a malfunction in phenylalanine processing, like phenylketonuria[1] and hyper…

This may well be the most interesting hypothesis for why I rely so heavily on these I've ever seen.

Are you aware of any research on this idea?

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#54

I concluded a some time ago that soda drinks weren't adding a lot of value for me at all. And I heard some people claim that the artificial sugars actually are not that great for you. 1) they teach your body that sweet stuff has no nutrition, which then becomes a problem when you actually eat sweet stuff 2) sweeteners like aspartame build up in your liver and fat deposits, which may or may not have long term impact.…

In the UK, most carbonated beverages now contain a blend of sugar and artificial sweeteners, in order to stay under the 5g per 100ml threshold for the "sugar tax". Coca-cola "classic"/"original taste" is still available with only sugar, but typically at a higher price than other options.

I don't think this is true. Last time I checked, the supermarket default options are still Coke/Pepsi/etc with 11g sugar per 100ml and zero artificial sweeteners.

I haven't seen any sugar/sweetener mixes even after the sugar tax - they are either full-on sugar or zero-sugar.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On 2 and 3: aspartame metabolizes into the amino acid phenylalanine, a precursor to dopamine and epinephrine[0]. In normal people, breakdown of the upstream neurotransmitters increase when phenylalanine increases, meaning there are no negative effects from it's consumption. It does not store in the liver. There are some diseases that involve a malfunction in phenylalanine processing, like phenylketonuria[1] and hyper…

This may well be the most interesting hypothesis for why I rely so heavily on these I've ever seen. Are you aware of any research on this idea?

I am not aware of any research, I've only connected the dots from my experience. I was super pale growing up, had orthostatic hypotension, dry skin, sweated insanely during puberty, and felt like I got progressively stupider as I got into my early 20s. I developed hypertension, and I drank lots of diet energy drinks from 16-20 and felt better when I did.

At some point, I got genetic testing done through 23andme, ran that info through software that revealed health info, and it showed I had a genoset that heavily affects phenylalanine processing. I started taking a stimulant and tyrosine, and I've felt better ever since.

My genetic oddity also affects NO synthesis, and will probably lead to my death through heart attack or stroke. It's gs224 if you're interested in the specifics.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#56

I concluded a some time ago that soda drinks weren't adding a lot of value for me at all. And I heard some people claim that the artificial sugars actually are not that great for you. 1) they teach your body that sweet stuff has no nutrition, which then becomes a problem when you actually eat sweet stuff 2) sweeteners like aspartame build up in your liver and fat deposits, which may or may not have long term impact.…

On 2 and 3: aspartame metabolizes into the amino acid phenylalanine, a precursor to dopamine and epinephrine[0]. In normal people, breakdown of the upstream neurotransmitters increase when phenylalanine increases, meaning there are no negative effects from it's consumption. It does not store in the liver. There are some diseases that involve a malfunction in phenylalanine processing, like phenylketonuria[1] and hyper…

thank you! as someone who replaced ~100g/day of hfcs with ~450mg of aspartame by switching from coke to dietcoke I'm alway interested in what I should be specifically watching for as the downside of this tradeoff. thanks to your links i now know an answer to that is "phe >120 by any chance is that number a standard part of a yearly blood test, or do you have to ask for it?

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#57

It is entirely unclear how any controls were implemented. They say "after controlling for lifestyle factors" but do not say which factors nor how they controlled for them. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that diet beverages are simply a proxy for some other factor. Maybe even just weight. To wit: "This association may also be contributed to by rising blood pressure and sugars that were not yet diagnosed…

Welcome to all of nutrition science. As a field it is characterized by a dearth of studies which are actually capable of demonstrating causation. Almost every study is simply a measurement of correlation. And then you get these moronic interpretations of the studies, sometimes by the study authors themselves.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may well be the most interesting hypothesis for why I rely so heavily on these I've ever seen. Are you aware of any research on this idea?

I am not aware of any research, I've only connected the dots from my experience. I was super pale growing up, had orthostatic hypotension, dry skin, sweated insanely during puberty, and felt like I got progressively stupider as I got into my early 20s. I developed hypertension, and I drank lots of diet energy drinks from 16-20 and felt better when I did. At some point, I got genetic testing done through 23andme, ran…

Damn... my wife and I are doing our 23 and me for the holiday today, I'll have to check it out. I've been investigating a ton of stuff related to my Tourette's (hence the ticviking handle) and now I'm curious how that dopamine path and my tics might be related...

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#59
I noticed a pattern on sites where the userbase is more "science savvy" types, concencus os always to discredit anything against manmade like gmo and now this. Also, the entire perception on food in the west is so upside down its like the darkages here in that regard. Its fascinating to witness.

Re: Two or more diet beverages a day linked to high risk of stroke, heart attacks

#60
Why do westerners treat everything as a cause and effect machine? Its such an amateur view. This is a great illustratin of "intellect" vs "intelligence". The entire western societies are based on "intellect". Also, don't consume fake anything ;)
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