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Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

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Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#301
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Where is our compensation? It's our time and brain power training Google's AI that will one day be sold back to us. I'm really not into this.

So you want compensation because your data is used along with millions of others to train an algorithm to distinguish if a bot or a real human to provide a service to you? Nice.

It isn’t to train their bot detection algorithm. It is to train their other efforts (e.g. self driving cars, mapping, etc.)

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is noscript still the best for that? I haven't looked at other options in a long time.

If you want more granularity I’d suggest giving uMatrix a try. You’ll basically break every site at first and have to make adjustments for every site you visit (whitelist certain Ressourcen on a per domain basis) but I think it’s well worth it. NoScript (which is totally fine) just blocks all JS, uMatrix can block much more.

> NoScript (which is totally fine) just blocks all JS

Depends on the version of NoScript. If you stick with the older ones before this was broken, you're good. You can't do that with the new Firefox, though.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This might surprise you, but it actually has to do with what traffic coming out of TOR looks like. That's a massive load of bullshit. Google has a captcha challenge that only humans can solve. That alone is already sufficient to prevent unwanted traffic. That is how every captcha system works. However google is an exception. If you're logged in to a google account or are using chrome then google can use that informa…

The tile fade-in is also egregious. The only reason that exists is to punish humans.

Well, it punishes bots in an equal amount, in that the bots have to wait longer before they can retry.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#304
post #122

This is reCAPTCHA v2. There's even a v3 that does not have a checkbox at all. Is just a Javascript API that gives you a score between 1.0 and 0.0 on how likely a user is a bot or not. I suspect it uses the same ideas of this one, maybe more since the article is a bit outdated. https://developers.google.com/identity/protocols/OAuth2#inst...

> Is just a Javascript API that gives you a score

Yes, this is the worst of them all, as it will completely lock me out of websites that use it.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#305

Its getting weird when you have to fill that box in with pen and paper Marci Robin was buying a Fiat 500X from a West Palm Beach, Florida dealership, and was in the final stages of signing all the paperwork, when she was presented with a strange but simple question: was she a robot? This wasn’t online or anything, she was right there, in person, in front of the sales person, who wanted her to check a box, with a pen,…

I had roughly the same problem. My facebook career lasted for all of thirty seconds before they decided I was a robot and banned my account. I appealed and they asked me to send a photo. I sent them a photo and they said I was still a robot and there was no further appeal. Very helpful. So my choices from that point are to 1) shame them in the media and hope its an entertaining enough story that people like it or 2)…

> My facebook career

Interesting interview process!

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#307

I think recaptcha and captcha in general are very overused today, as they cause way too much inconvenience for the user. Why discriminate against robots so much? What's so wrong about crawling or using automated tools? With today's networks and hardware performance most websites shouldn't concern themselves with denial-of-service type of attacks, unless they're past a certain threshold of popularity.

At work we have a scraper that likes to use a particularly expensive search query using hundreds of different ips dozens of times per second, all so that they can scrape data that is freely available from us as an XML feed at a different url. Every time I found a way to fingerprint and block them, they'd change their bot to avoid detection. Captcha for rate limiting seemed like the least bad option. However, eventual…

Rate limiting can be achieved without actually inconveniencing regular users. Put a exponentially growing delay on the server's response for requests coming in too quick succession.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#308
post #289
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so you've decided that being white supremacist is bad. I can agree with you on that, but still the question remains: who get's do decide what has a place in modern society? Who decides what "modern society" even is? Today Google might decide to censor white supremacists, tomorrow it can be human rights advocates. I think that allowing any type of censorship, even for such a noble cause as fighing racism is a slip…

You're trying to generalize a useful rule ("shun white supremacists") but it doesn't work in this case. I don't think we need to, either. We're not robots. We can shun white supremacists and leave everyone else alone. This isn't a slippery slope, it's just good sense (no more white supremacists, hey!). Humankind will get along just fine if we tack on that one extra rule and all follow it.

Good thing the definition of white supremacist is commonly agreed upon and noncontroversial and absolutely isnt subject to definition creep :)

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#309
post #257
post #239

I haven't seen any mention of keystroke (or mouse) biometrics ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystroke_dynamics ) When the checkbox appeared I assumed that was what it was. Keep a history of the biometrics of the devices either on the account or in a cookie. Use a sufficiently secure and obfuscated language to capture and upload the data (maybe using steganography in an image, explaining the weird image uploads.)…

The basic theory behind that checkbox is to attach an unmovable cookie to your browser. The majority the client side reCAPTCHA is fingerprinting to make it impossible for spammers to steal cookies from legitimate users. Once you have the immovable cookie, is easy to do regular reCAPTCHA challenges until you are sure that browser is being used by a regular human. You will notice that if you ever move to fresh OS insta…

Great points. I agree the critical and biggest innovation is building a secure environment inside the browser. When I explored keyboard/mouse biometrics it was for detecting account theft which is a bit different.

If they have a way to create a secure, immovable cookie across browser sessions even in incognito mode then they don't need biometrics. In the absence of persistence, biometrics could serve as the cookie. Even with a naive approach in a hackathon, a member of my team was able to get very high precision identifying users based on a small sample of keyboard and mouse movements. I'm sure Google can do better.

So it's not really about attackers being able to look like any human. It's about being able to look like a specific human. Which is much harder.

But maybe you have more experience? We abandoned it seemed intrusive and because we knew we couldn't invest in the secure environment. Without that it doesn't matter. And with it maybe there's an easier solution. But I figured that given Google made it that they would be using keyboard/mouse movements for user identification.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#310
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADA? Americans with Disabilities Act? Why would that have any bearing on user agent randomization?

I think the argument boils down to "how do you fill out the captcha if you use a screen reader"?

They already have an accommodations for the visually impaired with the audio captchas.

https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/6175971?hl=en

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