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Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

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Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what ReCaptcha always was... it was originally a known and another unsure text blurb from scanned books/text documents. Now it's street signs etc.

Don't forget the bonus: all your forum accounts can be linked to your google account, just in case you didn't use your gmail as the email address.

That's what really kills me here. This is lock-in at least as bad as the Equifax situation.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#233
The linked post doesn't give any concrete answers in my opinion. Can't a bot use a real browser to pass the CSS tests? Can't the behaviour of a human be recorded and mixed in with the behaviour of the bot to seem more human like? Why can't the encryption used be decoded?

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they're actually getting though is the population consensus of what normal people believes Google's image classifier believes. The system incentivizes users to reinforce misconceptions their classifier has. Does this look like a mountain to you? https://0x0.st/zzvr.jpg Google's image classifier would think that's a mountain. If you disagree, google will classify you as a robot. After failing these sort of challe…

What makes you think Google's image classifer would think that's a mountain? Especially if this is all used for learning, enough people saying "that is clearly not a mountain" would reinforce that it's, in fact, probably not a mountain. Even if I got classified as a robot, I'm not sure I would think "oh, a system designed to classify images would think this not-a-mountain is a mountain", so I definitely wouldn't doub…

> "What makes you think Google's image classifer would think that's a mountain?"

Because every single time it asks me to classify mountains it rejects my answers if I don't click on trees on the horizon (and often trees on the horizon are the only "mountains" presented) and every single time it accepts the answer that such trees are mountains. I've gotten the mountains challenge dozens of times, the results are very consistent. If there is a group of trees on the horizon, that is asserted to be a mountain.

> "enough people saying "that is clearly not a mountain" would reinforce that it's, in fact, probably not a mountain."

Totally irrelevant because if I am trying to get through a google captcha, it's because that captcha is standing in the way of me doing something. My interest is in passing the captcha, not correcting Google's shitty image classifier. So I have absolutely no incentive to make my life harder by insisting on correct answers, and every incentive to tell Google what they want to hear.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#235
post #6

The box has made browsing using TOR insufferable! It fusses and makes me click storefronts and traffic lights until I run out of patience and close out of whatever webpage I was trying to visit. I assume it has to do with a lack of Google cookies on the browser, essentially punishing me for trying to protect my privacy.

Those images are infuriating! Click all boxes with traffic lights. Ok, well, this one box just barely contains the bottom right corner of the traffic light. Click. Nope, that little corner didn't count. Try again. Ok, well on this one, the right side of the traffic light is only barely over the line, so I won't click it. Nope, that sliver of the light mattered this time. MF!

>Those images are infuriating!

And, does the pole count?

The whole thing is way more stressful than it needs to be for what it is.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#236

Its getting weird when you have to fill that box in with pen and paper Marci Robin was buying a Fiat 500X from a West Palm Beach, Florida dealership, and was in the final stages of signing all the paperwork, when she was presented with a strange but simple question: was she a robot? This wasn’t online or anything, she was right there, in person, in front of the sales person, who wanted her to check a box, with a pen,…

I had roughly the same problem. My facebook career lasted for all of thirty seconds before they decided I was a robot and banned my account. I appealed and they asked me to send a photo. I sent them a photo and they said I was still a robot and there was no further appeal. Very helpful. So my choices from that point are to 1) shame them in the media and hope its an entertaining enough story that people like it or 2)…

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Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#237
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADA? Americans with Disabilities Act? Why would that have any bearing on user agent randomization?

I think he means that having people fill out recaptcha all the time because they don't allow Google to track them should be an ADA violation.

Again I still don't see how not wanting Google to track you should qualify as a disability under the ADA.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Where is our compensation? It's our time and brain power training Google's AI that will one day be sold back to us. I'm really not into this.

You might be interested what https://hcaptcha.com is doing.

Wow thanks for this, I added myself to the waiting list.

If you use my referral URL I get a bump in the queue:

https://hcaptcha.com/?r=29d830be7540

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#239
I haven't seen any mention of keystroke (or mouse) biometrics (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystroke_dynamics) When the checkbox appeared I assumed that was what it was.

Keep a history of the biometrics of the devices either on the account or in a cookie. Use a sufficiently secure and obfuscated language to capture and upload the data (maybe using steganography in an image, explaining the weird image uploads.) Prompt when the biometrics don't match a known user of the device/account (according to ml). Or if the tracking data didn't exist (incognito) then prompt using a backup model trained in the difference between the biometrics of known bots and known humans. Keep a very loose threshold here.

That's how I'd do it if I were Google (and no one else because only Google can afford that.) All the browser fingerprinting stuff mentioned is great but doesn't really work as much as you'd hope in practice.

Re: Why can’t a bot tick the 'I'm not a robot' box?

#240
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes like this: "so you want to be anonymous and won't let us track every single thing you do? ok, then you'll help us train our AI so we can improve our self-driving cars and improve how Google Maps extracts information from Street View images"

I always figured the main point was behavioral profiling on mouse and keystroke trajectories.

The bot-vs-human is distinguished by profiling mouse and keystroke patterns.

The image classifications that you do, however, are used to train the computer vision system.

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