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Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

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Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#161

Post by imtringued »

TomMarius wrote: post #131
accatyyc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if it uses the same browser binary as your other web apps (tabs or other DeskGap apps), the OS can share memory between them. Not possible with electron since every app bundles its own Chromium binary.

That is incorrect. Programs can't share memory just because they've been launched from the same binary. This is just reusing a DLL and saving disk space thanks to it.

I don't understand why you are talking about launching binaries. The entire point of this approach is to not launch a separate browser instance.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#162

Post by jgillich »

patr0nus wrote: post #24
userbinator wrote: post #21

I find it amusing that the opening paragraph describes it as a "framework for building cross-platform desktop apps" and then shortly below that in the "Supported Platforms" section it lists one Mac OS and one very specific version of Windows. No Linux at all. Even native Windows apps are more cross-platform than that! (I have written a few which will work on any version of Windows starting at Win95...)

I shared your concern before I started the project, and talked about this in the readme's FAQ[0]. [0] https://deskgap.com/#faq

The majority of Linux users use a GTK desktop, IMO WebkitGTK would be preferable.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#163

Post by goldenkey »

TomMarius wrote: post #131
accatyyc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if it uses the same browser binary as your other web apps (tabs or other DeskGap apps), the OS can share memory between them. Not possible with electron since every app bundles its own Chromium binary.

That is incorrect. Programs can't share memory just because they've been launched from the same binary. This is just reusing a DLL and saving disk space thanks to it.

You are patently wrong. The primary advantage of DLLs is shared memory usage:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/dlls/advant...

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#164

Post by sh4rk »

disillusion wrote: post #122

I think it's interesting how debates about Electron inevitably end up with the arguments 'the developer wants X' vs 'the user wants Y'. However, there's one aspect a lot of people seem to overlook in their arguments: pragmatism. The ideal application: - uses almost no memory - uses almost no disk space - is extremely fast - costs (next to) nothing - and has all the features in the world - presented in a manner that a…

I disagree.

The ideal application:

- uses no memory

- uses no disk space

- is instant

- costs nothing

- and has all the features in the world

- presented in a manner that automatically shows the user only the exact features (s)he cares about

The real-world application, when the developers work for the customer and not for themselves:

- uses almost no memory

- uses almost no disk space

- is extremely fast

- costs next to nothing

- and has almost all the features in the world

- presented in a manner that automatically shows the user only the exact features (s)he cares about

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#165

Post by eyko »

fxfan wrote: post #155
faitswulff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone on earth is a dev/gamer/video-editor. For regular people, electron is a cancer that needs to be nipped in the bud. That's not how I expected that sentence to end. I don't think regular people are nearly as concerned with performance as the groups you listed are. Regular people are probably using Electron via Slack for work and if it's slow and bloated it's ultimately not their problem. Even a few secon…

How many non-devs (equivalent to the group of RAM < 6GB) use slack?

I work with a few organisations and small teams that use slack to communicate. They're campaigners, marketing types, logistics, finance, HR, and overall general staff working for businesses and organisations. I was also attending some university lectures recently (on history) and the class had a slack account which we were invited to join if we had any questions or needed support.

You also don't need to focus on Slack. Skype is an electron app. How many people use Skype to connect with their family?

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#166

Post by accatyyc »

TomMarius wrote: post #131
accatyyc wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if it uses the same browser binary as your other web apps (tabs or other DeskGap apps), the OS can share memory between them. Not possible with electron since every app bundles its own Chromium binary.

That is incorrect. Programs can't share memory just because they've been launched from the same binary. This is just reusing a DLL and saving disk space thanks to it.

Of course they can. This is what OS engineers have spent decades thinking about and optimizing. And then stuff like Electron appears and circumvents all those optimizations. Which is the main reason I dislike it.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#167

Post by johnday »

sh4rk wrote: post #164
disillusion wrote: post #122

I think it's interesting how debates about Electron inevitably end up with the arguments 'the developer wants X' vs 'the user wants Y'. However, there's one aspect a lot of people seem to overlook in their arguments: pragmatism. The ideal application: - uses almost no memory - uses almost no disk space - is extremely fast - costs (next to) nothing - and has all the features in the world - presented in a manner that a…

I disagree. The ideal application: - uses no memory - uses no disk space - is instant - costs nothing - and has all the features in the world - presented in a manner that automatically shows the user only the exact features (s)he cares about The real-world application, when the developers work for the customer and not for themselves: - uses almost no memory - uses almost no disk space - is extremely fast - costs next…

But developers do work for themselves...

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#168

Post by accatyyc »

TomMarius wrote: post #153
MrStonedOne wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing data memory and code memory.

I am not, actually I am pointing out that the comment I replied to does.

Both code memory and data memory will be shared by any modern OS. The code memory will of course be shared since it's the same, and the data memory will be shared until modified. Then that memory page will be copied for the process that changed it (check out copy-on-write).

And then there's disk memory, which isn't as important IMO but still it will of course be smaller since you don't ship the whole browser stack for each application.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#169

Post by dotancohen »

patr0nus wrote: post #24
userbinator wrote: post #21

I find it amusing that the opening paragraph describes it as a "framework for building cross-platform desktop apps" and then shortly below that in the "Supported Platforms" section it lists one Mac OS and one very specific version of Windows. No Linux at all. Even native Windows apps are more cross-platform than that! (I have written a few which will work on any version of Windows starting at Win95...)

I shared your concern before I started the project, and talked about this in the readme's FAQ[0]. [0] https://deskgap.com/#faq

I'm glad to see that you are considering the Qt component. Qt looks good on Gnome, KDE, and other desktops. It is also relatively lightweight for what it offers.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#170

Post by fedesilva »

fxfan wrote: post #155
faitswulff wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone on earth is a dev/gamer/video-editor. For regular people, electron is a cancer that needs to be nipped in the bud. That's not how I expected that sentence to end. I don't think regular people are nearly as concerned with performance as the groups you listed are. Regular people are probably using Electron via Slack for work and if it's slow and bloated it's ultimately not their problem. Even a few secon…

How many non-devs (equivalent to the group of RAM < 6GB) use slack?

About 6k+ people use it in my org - the vast majority are not devs.
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