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Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

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Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#61

Post by vedantroy »

mch82 wrote: post #51
Klonoar wrote: post #5

These projects completely overlook _why_ people choose Electron over the system view. - Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019. - Nobody wants to wait for a vendor to update their implementation when Chrome has the feature available almost immediately. Edit: Since I can already see the litany of armchair-quarterback-desktop-app-authors, I'm just going to link to the comment from…

> Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019 Yes, lots of projects want multiple, competitive rendering engines. It used to be that Windows was the only viable target OS for commercial software. Firefox and Safari gave IE competition and gave developers who wanted to target Mac and Linux a way to get a foot in the door. That kicked off the whole generation of web apps we’ve just liv…

The point is that developers don't want to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines--hence why Electron was built.

Maybe having multiple engines is good (although maybe the benefits are overstated since nowadays most engines align with the spec instead of implementing non-standard extensions like ActiveX), but it's not good for people for who want to quickly, and with low effort, develop desktop applications.

The point of the parent comment was that developers chose Electron over other frameworks for reasons such as speed of development, and DeskGap does not align with those reasons.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#62

Post by CyberDildonics »

Klonoar wrote: post #5

These projects completely overlook _why_ people choose Electron over the system view. - Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019. - Nobody wants to wait for a vendor to update their implementation when Chrome has the feature available almost immediately. Edit: Since I can already see the litany of armchair-quarterback-desktop-app-authors, I'm just going to link to the comment from…

Doesn't anyone who makes a webpage need to test it in different browsers?

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#63

Post by fermienrico »

aylmao wrote: post #49
Klonoar wrote: post #5

These projects completely overlook _why_ people choose Electron over the system view. - Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019. - Nobody wants to wait for a vendor to update their implementation when Chrome has the feature available almost immediately. Edit: Since I can already see the litany of armchair-quarterback-desktop-app-authors, I'm just going to link to the comment from…

> Nobody This is like claiming nobody wants to write C because no one wants to manage their own memory in 2019, or miss out on all the cool new packages in the JS ecosystem. Evidently _some people_ do. I can assure you there's at least number _n > 1_ of people who care more about app size than either of your points. I personally wrote a side project in system web-view, because I don't want my macOS-only system-tray a…

No need to go too far to find an example: Sublime Text and Sublime Merge.

While this route is probably not for quick app deployment, but boy can it kick ass when properly done in C++ with custom GUI framework.

I love Sublime Text and Sublime Merge. I love their philosophy towards software design. I love how they value user experience above everything else.

There are very few pieces of software that give you so much pleasure and joy in using them on a day to day basis.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#64

Post by CyberDildonics »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #42
ploxiln wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider Slack and Spotify to be good at making applications (despite their popularity). These are the least efficient chat app and least efficient music app ever, in a multi-decade history of chat and music apps, which didn't have the overflowing abundance of convenience and productivity offered by Electron. (This is like the obviously silly quote "we lose money on every sale, but we'll make it up in volume!…

> These are the least efficient chat app and least efficient music app ever Which 99% of users never care about. The idea that large memory usage is a negative business driver is almost laughable at this point, yet for some reason it is a huge pet peeve among lots of technologists.

People care about latency and sluggish interfaces on their brand new PC.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#66

Post by arvinsim »

mch82 wrote: post #51
Klonoar wrote: post #5

These projects completely overlook _why_ people choose Electron over the system view. - Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019. - Nobody wants to wait for a vendor to update their implementation when Chrome has the feature available almost immediately. Edit: Since I can already see the litany of armchair-quarterback-desktop-app-authors, I'm just going to link to the comment from…

> Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019 Yes, lots of projects want multiple, competitive rendering engines. It used to be that Windows was the only viable target OS for commercial software. Firefox and Safari gave IE competition and gave developers who wanted to target Mac and Linux a way to get a foot in the door. That kicked off the whole generation of web apps we’ve just liv…

It's good that you are advocating for render engine competition. But I think you think you are getting off tangent.

It has nothing to do with the point that trying to make your code work in multiple browsers/rendering engines is painful.

Wanting a project to work with multiple rendering engines just because is an idealogical decision.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#67

Post by gpvos »

EGreg wrote: post #58
mch82 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019 Yes, lots of projects want multiple, competitive rendering engines. It used to be that Windows was the only viable target OS for commercial software. Firefox and Safari gave IE competition and gave developers who wanted to target Mac and Linux a way to get a foot in the door. That kicked off the whole generation of web apps we’ve just liv…

I’m going to disagree. Over the two decades I have been programming I have come to appreciate the benefit of Open Source Collaboration vs competition. Competition between platforms is good, but it’s not the best. Because those who produce content waste millions of hours collectively trying to address every little quirky difference between the platforms. And the standards only help so much, whether it’s POSIX or WHATW…

Chrome/Blink may be open source, but it's controlled by Google after Blink forked from WebKit. It's hardly collaborative.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#69

Post by gpvos »

arvinsim wrote: post #66
mch82 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants to be testing against multiple browser/rendering engines in 2019 Yes, lots of projects want multiple, competitive rendering engines. It used to be that Windows was the only viable target OS for commercial software. Firefox and Safari gave IE competition and gave developers who wanted to target Mac and Linux a way to get a foot in the door. That kicked off the whole generation of web apps we’ve just liv…

It's good that you are advocating for render engine competition. But I think you think you are getting off tangent. It has nothing to do with the point that trying to make your code work in multiple browsers/rendering engines is painful. Wanting a project to work with multiple rendering engines just because is an idealogical decision.

All software is political, so ideology is relevant.

Re: Show HN: DeskGap – Like Electron, but uses the system webview

#70

Post by arvinsim »

lugg wrote: post #53
onion2k wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just isn't true. You only need to browse caniuse.com for 5 minutes to see there are significant differences between browsers even for mature CSS features. If you want to use anything new it's a minefield.

Not sure why your ADHD fuelled shiny seeking is an excuse for the shitshow that is electron. Just don't use new stuff? I'm also unsure how it is even supposed to solve that specific issue considering my laptop is currently running at least two versions of electron for different apps, both of which render text as their primary directive.

The parent comment was stipulating that CSS is mature.

The reply was that it isn't because there are lots of features that are not available to all browsers.

A mature platform would be one where the features are consistent in whatever environment it is in. So in that regard, CSS is not mature.

"Just don't use new stuff" is not an excuse.

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