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What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

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Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#31

Post by [deleted] »

_pmf_ wrote: post #26
Animats wrote: post #9

Yeah, hyperloops. Going to be insanely cheap. Right. The one route that might have made sense, Dubai to Abu Dhabi, seems to not be happening. That was over empty flat desert, and had government support, so it might have been built. Monorails are a working technology, but still niche. China has 140Km or so. Japan has about 80Km. They're useful when you have to cram a transit system into a built-up city. The switch pro…

The problem with billionaires guessing what lowly commuters want is that they focus on speed and comfort instead of the more mundane issues as "bum with distinct urine smell", "person who ate several garlic cloves the evening before" and "menacing group of youths".

[deleted]

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#32

Post by tempestn »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #30
JonathonW wrote: post #19

To be a little contrarian: what would New York City look like today if they had dismissed the Subway as a "gadgetbahn" back in 1894?

It isn't though; it's a conventional rail system, nothing too fancy there. And it solved an actual problem, unlike e.g. the monorail vs conventional high speed rails.

It's conventional now, but initially the idea of putting trains underground beneath a city must have sounded a lot like a Hyperloop or whatever does today. (Which isn't to say that I think these current gadgetbahns are good ideas.)

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#34

Post by darkpuma »

tempestn wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't though; it's a conventional rail system, nothing too fancy there. And it solved an actual problem, unlike e.g. the monorail vs conventional high speed rails.

It's conventional now, but initially the idea of putting trains underground beneath a city must have sounded a lot like a Hyperloop or whatever does today. (Which isn't to say that I think these current gadgetbahns are good ideas.)

You're mistaken. Decades before the New York Subway (opened 1904), you had the Cobble Hill Tunnel running three quarters of a kilometer under the streets of Brooklyn (1844). And the New York Subway was preceded in an much more substantial way by the Metropolitan Railway in London (proposed in the 1830s, began construction in the 1850s), that would eventually become the London Underground. The Metropolitian Railway took a conservative incremental approach to existing technology. The locomotives were steam and the tunnels were cut and cover. Subway systems as we know them to day are the product of nearly two centuries of incrementing on already proven technology.

If you want a real example of a 19th century Gadgetbahn in New York, the obvious example is the Beach Pneumatic Transit (which was a total flop and was remarkably similar to Elon's "hyperloop" in numerous other ways as well.)

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#35

Post by C1sc0cat »

_pmf_ wrote: post #26
Animats wrote: post #9

Yeah, hyperloops. Going to be insanely cheap. Right. The one route that might have made sense, Dubai to Abu Dhabi, seems to not be happening. That was over empty flat desert, and had government support, so it might have been built. Monorails are a working technology, but still niche. China has 140Km or so. Japan has about 80Km. They're useful when you have to cram a transit system into a built-up city. The switch pro…

The problem with billionaires guessing what lowly commuters want is that they focus on speed and comfort instead of the more mundane issues as "bum with distinct urine smell", "person who ate several garlic cloves the evening before" and "menacing group of youths".

From a UK perspective (commuting to London 60+ miles each way) speed and comfort are an issue.

See the "new" trains by Siemens on the Bedford - Brighton line which have worse comfort and reliability that the older electro stars.

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#36

Post by Quequau »

The town I live in is too small for an U-Bahn. Nevertheless it's obvious to anyone paying attention that on-street parking, commuting, and delivery are creating impediments to our happiness and well being.

I have often wondered what a delivery U-Bahn might look like... something that was devoted entirely on deliveries of materials and packages.

Anything to get more of the cars and trucks off the streets and devote more space in the city to people.

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#37

Post by sideshowb »

_pmf_ wrote: post #26
Animats wrote: post #9

Yeah, hyperloops. Going to be insanely cheap. Right. The one route that might have made sense, Dubai to Abu Dhabi, seems to not be happening. That was over empty flat desert, and had government support, so it might have been built. Monorails are a working technology, but still niche. China has 140Km or so. Japan has about 80Km. They're useful when you have to cram a transit system into a built-up city. The switch pro…

The problem with billionaires guessing what lowly commuters want is that they focus on speed and comfort instead of the more mundane issues as "bum with distinct urine smell", "person who ate several garlic cloves the evening before" and "menacing group of youths".

Also affordability for those on minimum wage.

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#39

Post by lmm »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #35
_pmf_ wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with billionaires guessing what lowly commuters want is that they focus on speed and comfort instead of the more mundane issues as "bum with distinct urine smell", "person who ate several garlic cloves the evening before" and "menacing group of youths".

From a UK perspective (commuting to London 60+ miles each way) speed and comfort are an issue. See the "new" trains by Siemens on the Bedford - Brighton line which have worse comfort and reliability that the older electro stars.

Do the trains actually have comfort or reliability problems, or do people just assume they must? The seats look incredibly thin, but are actually much more comfortable than the ones they replaced IME. Early days saw a lot of train cancellations but that was due to not having enough trained drivers rather than any technical issues.

Re: What’s a Gadgetbahn? (2017)

#40

Post by _pmf_ »

Quequau wrote: post #36

The town I live in is too small for an U-Bahn. Nevertheless it's obvious to anyone paying attention that on-street parking, commuting, and delivery are creating impediments to our happiness and well being. I have often wondered what a delivery U-Bahn might look like... something that was devoted entirely on deliveries of materials and packages. Anything to get more of the cars and trucks off the streets and devote mo…

> and delivery are creating impediments to our happiness and well being. > I have often wondered what a delivery U-Bahn might look like

Instead of having delivery vans on the sidewalk, you'd have U-Bahn-to-store forklifts on the sidewalk.

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