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Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

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Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#91
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, they own some Lyft too.

Less, though. So Lyft it is. Not that there’s really any way you can ever control who owns shares of a public company, but if the government or its proxy is on record as a large shareholder, that’s something.

“Activism” without sacrificing convenience. Perfect. I suppose the really important part is that you get to tell your friends why they’re not as woke as you whenever they get an Uber.

It’s interesting seeing people admit to their fake outrage nowadays.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#92

I can’t believe that Lyft doesn’t cover the Bay Area with billboards that say “Saudi Arabia beats women and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia murders gay people and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia crucified two people last year and owns 10% of Uber.”

This is a great idea. But outside of this would anyone be interested in meeting up at tech companies and protesting?

It’s interesting that we’re all terrified of big tech’s growing base of power over our lives, yet more and more we expect big tech to take care of problems that governments are typically responsible for.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#93

They let you download the app... but they do NOT host the service. That's run by the Ministry of Interior. EDIT: I had a paragraph below this saying the laws were really the problem and would still exist without the app.. but I forgot one key point: how easy it was to subvert the system before the app existed. I've removed that section. I fully support removing the app from the app stores and forcing SA to go back to…

I agree, but I don't see why we shouldn't do both. We should press both Google and Apple to remove the app, as it helps out a horrible practice. What next, a database on female genital mutilation? Both Google and Apple have removed apps for far more trivial reasons.

But isn’t the removing of the genitals of transexual males a thing to be praised?

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, how will getting rid of an app stop the SMS notification system?

How will getting rid of the technology that makes this possible stop it?

The app is not the technology that makes this possible. It's just a webview around their website, and the SMS messages (not push notification) are sent directly to the phone via the cellular network.

Will anyone be able to silently leave the country if this app was pulled from the store? No, the SMS messages would still be sent, because they have nothing to do with the app.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#95
post #47

I can’t believe that Lyft doesn’t cover the Bay Area with billboards that say “Saudi Arabia beats women and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia murders gay people and owns 10% of Uber.” “Saudi Arabia crucified two people last year and owns 10% of Uber.”

i think I am actually going to switch to Lyft after reading this

Software isn't the only investment they do though. They also invest in electric car companies (which prompted Musk to threaten to go private), companies that do major infrastructure/construction, industrial manufacturing, virtual reality and machine learning, chemicals and materials, aerospace, etc. Not using an app is easy, but if you really want to escape them you'll have a fairly hard time doing so. They even own 25% of Arm Holdings, so better toss that cell phone and tablet.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#96
post #74
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what? So Apple removes the app from the store. Does that materially impact Saudi Arabi's institutional oppression of women?

Yes. Creating safe spaces for slavery and oppression is not what the App Store should be doing. It may not seem like much but every bit helps.

On one hand I think Apple and Google should drop this, and never should have hosted it. On the other hand I disagree with your assesment that “every little bit helps.” Too often these largely symbolic acts do little more than assuage guilt, they don’t improve anyone’s life. Think of it this way, if you’re riddled with cancer, and I offer you a single dose of chemo, you might reasonably complain that I’ve done nothing for you. If I then shrugged and said that at least I tried, and every little bit helps, you’d be well within your rights to laugh in my face.

Sometimes helping just a very little bit is as good as doing nothing, or even worse, because doing nothing at least is unequivocal in terms of moral culpability. In this case we’re talking about Saudi Arabia, a country with vast riches because we all buy their oil and kiss their asses. It’s like my government (U.K.) crying about Yemen while selling the Saudis more weapons.

Helping is a good idea, we shouldn’t host these apps, shouldn’t sell them weapons, and frankly shouldn’t dare to pat ourselves even slightly on the back for it.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#97

thatoneyouthrow got flagged for commenting on the hypocrisy of the tech Elite for their support of a government in Saudi Arabia that kills journalists and oppresses females with no apologies - that funds radical Islam throughout the world - in the comments of an article discussing Apple and Google distributing government oppression apps on their stores. It is odd. The keep from being too meta, I pose this question (s…

In an ideal world, it would be nice if we (governments, individuals, businesses etc) didn't support oppressive regimes and other bad actors. But would we though? Take Amazon - we know that they are almost as bad as Walmart on a host of issues, but how many of us would give up the convenience of one click shopping? It would be inconvenient, sure, but it is much easier for an individual to stop shopping at Amazon than for companies to give up billions of dollars in profit and answer their shareholders (to whom nothing matters but profit).

I am not saying Google/Apple is right - just pointing out that almost all of us are hypocrites at some level, some more than others.

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't because Saudi Arabia also owns part of Lyft (2.3%): https://www.reuters.com/article/lyft-kingdom-holding-ma/saud...

That's a 7.7% delta. If there was a 7.7% price delta then people would opt for Lyft every time.

It's like those starburst things on foods at the supermarket. "Lift: 7.7% less Saudi Arabia!"

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#99
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less, though. So Lyft it is. Not that there’s really any way you can ever control who owns shares of a public company, but if the government or its proxy is on record as a large shareholder, that’s something.

“Activism” without sacrificing convenience. Perfect. I suppose the really important part is that you get to tell your friends why they’re not as woke as you whenever they get an Uber. It’s interesting seeing people admit to their fake outrage nowadays.

I wonder how many forgo products made in communist countries?

Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women

#100

thatoneyouthrow got flagged for commenting on the hypocrisy of the tech Elite for their support of a government in Saudi Arabia that kills journalists and oppresses females with no apologies - that funds radical Islam throughout the world - in the comments of an article discussing Apple and Google distributing government oppression apps on their stores. It is odd. The keep from being too meta, I pose this question (s…

In an ideal world, it would be nice if we (governments, individuals, businesses etc) didn't support oppressive regimes and other bad actors. But would we though? Take Amazon - we know that they are almost as bad as Walmart on a host of issues, but how many of us would give up the convenience of one click shopping? It would be inconvenient, sure, but it is much easier for an individual to stop shopping at Amazon than…

Convenience is one factor and an even greater factor is price. People have as much morality as they can afford.
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