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Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

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Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#121

Post by rchaud »

nojvek wrote: post #80
baybal2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the simple explanation for their sales tanking is simply because they got their market saturated. Plainly and simple. Huawei on other hand has rather different marketing plan - they make somewhat expensive products for ordinary people, even thought some of their phones can cost more than $1000 USD in maxed out configuration (leather and hand made editions) Apple on another hand has really little appeal to this de…

I wouldn’t buy their $1000 phones ever. I bought my first phone outright for $500. Then all the way to $700. I’ve kept that phone for 3 years now. $1000 mark just seems too steep for something that easily breaks or gets stolen. Esp when it’s not that different from my iPhone8

The Galaxy S7 I purchased on contract had a list price of C$899, which my monthly payments were defraying. 2 years later, it's still in good condition, but so are the Huawei and Nokia Android devices I purchased unlocked for C$300.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#122

Post by roboys »

ardy42 wrote: post #111
free652 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason I doubt that you have the right perspective. Chinese are very nationalistic and every non immigrant Chinese I met is pro Chinese government. Netcitizens are even worse. American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales'…

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt ev…

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings).

Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are still doing business with Iran and not being penalized for it by the US. This is pure tradewar leverage/thuggery at work.

Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#123

Post by orangecat »

scarface74 wrote: post #107
oblio wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal opinion is that the future of technology isn't in the current affluent countries. Besides this, we already know that the vast majority of people stay within their ecosystems, once they start using them. Especially know that the differences in phone quality are going down (cheap phones are getting good; a cheap Android phone from 2010 was miles away from an iPhone, a cheap Android phone from 2020 will be c…

Windows “failed” but the whole time Microsoft was making a killing selling DOS. Microsoft, Intel, and the PC manufactures were all making money. The PC market drove a demand for high performing chips and even when PCs were being commoditized, there was enough of a demand for high end processors to keep Intel’s R&D effort strong. The high end profitable niche of the Android market is teeny. It’s eveb worse in the tabl…

It came out during the Oracle trial that Android has only made Google $39 billion during its entire existence. Even then, they pay Apple over $2 billion a year to be the default search engine for iOS devices.

If Android didn't exist, Google would likely be paying even more to be the default search engine on non-iOS devices, or they'd have significantly lower search revenue.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#124

Post by scarface74 »

rchaud wrote: post #120
scarface74 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. The 6s from 2015 was faster than the flagship Galaxy S8 in single core performance. Also, that Android phone you buy will stop getting updates in 18 months if you’re lucky. The iPhone 5s from 2013 is still running the latest OS.

> A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. Slower in doing what? Posting a pic/video on Wechat? Making a money transfer? Playing a game? Phones today are where the PC market was about a decade ago when 4GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo SoCs became common and offered enough performance for users to not have to upgrade their laptop every 3-5 years. We don't have to look at An…

I just had the pleasure of using my son’s Moto G released in 2018. He was glad to upgrade to my old iPhone 6s.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#125

Post by mikestew »

baybal2 wrote: post #23
Synaesthesia wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within China, Apple doesn't compete on price. Yes Huawei has expensive phones, but for example you can buy a Mate 20 Pro for $650 there whereas an iPhone XS costs $1,270 for the entry level model. https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/10/26/huawei-mate-20-and-mat...

> iPhone XS costs $1,270 for the entry level model. Indeed, but they also have the "3rd world iPhone" models - respins of previous generations and "C" model which were to supposedly cater to this market. They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions"

They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions"

Being kind of a car guy, I wondered how well it would work for them. Because to this day it stumps me when a luxury car manufacturer makes a budget model. The poster child for that was the Cadillac Cimarron. Take a Chevy Cavalier (one-step-above-the-low-end compact car), stick leather seats and a Cadillac badge on it, sorted. C'mon, Cadillac, people scraping together the money so they can say they own a "Cadillac" are not the people that will be upgrading to an El Dorado later. No, in fact, that they overpaid for a Chevy Cavalier because of a badge means they likely lack the financial sense to ever own a real Cadillac. All you've done is damage your brand, and pissed off Cadillac owners. (Don't get me started on the Jaguar X-type.)

In the same vein, the budget model iPhones made me wonder if you're ever going to pull those customers into what is an relatively expensive ecosystem. HN is a poor indicator, but all I've ever heard here is "I like the SE because size" not "hey, I saved a few bucks".

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#126

Post by mcphage »

roboys wrote: post #122
ardy42 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt ev…

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are s…

> Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony.

I read that Bloomberg article as more of a swipe at Apple and Amazon than at SuperMicro—especially given the tenor of other articles they've posted, as well as the fact that both companies responded forcefully almost immediately, with no followup or rebuttal from Bloomberg.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#127

Post by steve19 »

roboys wrote: post #122
ardy42 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt ev…

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are s…

Putting a million people into re-education camps is simply terrible. There is no justification for it.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#128

Post by mcphage »

puranjay wrote: post #53

Now that China profits have dried up, Apple will turn its attention to India. But they've really missed a trick with their retail strategy in India. They've partnered with local retailers to run "Apple stores". These stores are nowhere near the smooth, beautiful experience of a regular Apple Store. It feels preposterous to walk into a shoddily built store selling a phone for $1200 when you can walk next door to a Sam…

> for all purposes, this country is a lost cause to them

It's not really a lost cause until the market is saturated. If the smartphone market in 5-10 years in India is going to be significantly larger than it is now, then it's just getting started.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#129

Post by Wowfunhappy »

dis-sys wrote: post #94
yonkshi wrote: post #76

Currently visiting China for Chinese New Year, and can't help but to notice the anti-US anti-Apple sentiment that arose recently. Although anecdotal, I think the nationalistic sentiment has a lot to do with the dip in sales. To put in perspective, most Chinese netizens are generally pretty critical of the Chinese gov. Chinese with higher educations usually look up to western culture and products. However after the Hu…

> Chinese with higher educations usually look up to western culture and products. this was probably true 10-15 years ago. rather than some cheap talks purely based on "what I heard" or "what I believe", let's have some quick concrete numbers published [1] by the top Chinese university Tsinghua. In its 2018 annual graduate report, the summary table on page 2 shows that for the total 6,960 students graduated in 2018, 1…

> In its 2018 annual graduate report, the summary table on page 2 shows that for the total 6,960 students graduated in 2018, 16.5% chose to pursue further studies overseas, while 28.5% chose to continue in Chinese universities for a higher degree.

I wouldn't expect this to correlate with opinions of "western culture and products". There are a whole lot of reasons why you'd choose to stray in your country vs going oversees. For instance, how easy is it to get a US visa vs just staying in your native country?

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#130

Post by roboys »

steve19 wrote: post #127
roboys wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are s…

Putting a million people into re-education camps is simply terrible. There is no justification for it.

You are right, re-education camps to de-radicalize are bad but they are objectively better than our method of killing 1+ million civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan in the name of anti-terrorism then leaving a vacuum for ISIS to continue the mayhem and destabilize the whole region.
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