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Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

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Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#111

Post by ardy42 »

free652 wrote: post #79
yonkshi wrote: post #76

Currently visiting China for Chinese New Year, and can't help but to notice the anti-US anti-Apple sentiment that arose recently. Although anecdotal, I think the nationalistic sentiment has a lot to do with the dip in sales. To put in perspective, most Chinese netizens are generally pretty critical of the Chinese gov. Chinese with higher educations usually look up to western culture and products. However after the Hu…

For some reason I doubt that you have the right perspective. Chinese are very nationalistic and every non immigrant Chinese I met is pro Chinese government. Netcitizens are even worse. American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales'…

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China.

Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt everyday nationalistic citizens would be any more thoughtful.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768: "A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson told reporters: 'The detention without giving any reason violates a person's human rights.' ... Beijing has itself frequently been accused by rights groups of rights abuses including unexplained detentions"

> China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales' dip.

Nationalistic ferver drummed up by the Huawei arrest could compound the sales drop.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#112

Post by [deleted] »

close04 wrote: post #105
andy_ppp wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huawei isn't a premium brand in the same way Apple is so keeping things clear and focused is less important for them. I think we all know many of the reasons discussed on here has contriibuted to the downturn in sales. I'm clearly not saying it's exclusively about one issue in my comment, but you decided to rephrase it to say that, which must have been fun for you. Edit: Changed "X" to be "one issue" for clairty, but…

I said nothing about the X nor have I implied it, just about Apple’s lineup in general. Apple has a very narrow lineup that’s not that hard to follow. Huawei aims at high end and the prices confirm it. The lineup is far more complicated. And being less than high end shouldn’t really change this. If a complicated lineup kills sales it should do it for both Apple and Huawei. My only point is that the argument “lineup i…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#113

Post by dingo_bat »

hajile wrote: post #97
puranjay wrote: post #53

Now that China profits have dried up, Apple will turn its attention to India. But they've really missed a trick with their retail strategy in India. They've partnered with local retailers to run "Apple stores". These stores are nowhere near the smooth, beautiful experience of a regular Apple Store. It feels preposterous to walk into a shoddily built store selling a phone for $1200 when you can walk next door to a Sam…

I somewhat doubt India is a good target for them. Even FirefoxOS feature phones currently outsell Apple in India right now.

Apple has really absurd pricing in India. I plan to spend around $1000 in ₹ to upgrade my phone in the coming months. But if I buy an iPhone I'll get the absolute lowest version of last year's model.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#114

Post by stephencanon »

newnewpdro wrote: post #106
stephencanon wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hermès is French.

One would expect them to suffer in China as well if the cause were economic, which I believe is the point the parent is making.

That’s a reasonable interpretation, thanks. I’m not sure that it tells us much given that Apple and Hermès are in fairly different markets, unfortunately.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#115

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

kettlecorn wrote: post #93
ksec wrote: post #70

Roger McNamee seems to get it, the iPhone was probably the most successful technology product in history, and arguably the "most" successful in anything. It leads to a sea of other innovation across multiple spectrum. On the Notes of Retail, Apple had ~430 Stores in 2014, ~460 in 2015. As of end 2018 it is ~510, all the stores opened in 2015 were planned before Angela's arrival, so effectively she has slowed down the…

Apple is not just chasing luxury, they’re chasing tech as fashion. They realized that when people carry their tech with them all the time it becomes fashion. That’s why they bought Beats, because it became a huge tech-fashion brand that threatened Apple. And with fashion people are willing to pay much higher prices.

Which was not a clever idea, because Apple already owned the tech-as-fashion brand just by being themselves.

In fact the fashion market is all about ridiculous virtue signalling at absolutely ridiculous prices - like the Vertu range, which takes an average phone and wraps it in some leather and chrome bling, dresses up the marketing copy with "craftsmanship" "exclusive" etc etc etc and charges five figures for it.

The key point is ridiculous pricing. Not just the very high end of affordable, like Apple. But the kind of ridiculous that only works for the 0.1%.

So Apple was never going to be Gucci-of-tech, or LV, or H. Or even Vertu. Because Apple is never going to charge $20k for its main iPhone range. And unless it does, it can't be a serious fashion brand.

In fact Apple's strong point was always its appeal to the exclusivity of the creative market - talent, intelligence, inventiveness, and art. It's a completely different exclusivity - more accessible but also sexier - than the mass market appeal of the expensive-but-trying-too-hard mid-market brands that Apple has ended up in.

Cook has done an excellent job of destroying that creative entrepreneurial foundation. This has made a lot of money for Apple in the medium term, but at the cost of the good will and loyalty of its core fans.

That won't seem like a problem if you're a bean counter, but it's a huge vulnerability for the brand. It means Apple has shaved off more and more of its USP, and now it's vulnerable to imitators in some of its key territories.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#116

Post by brandonmenc »

kettlecorn wrote: post #93
ksec wrote: post #70

Roger McNamee seems to get it, the iPhone was probably the most successful technology product in history, and arguably the "most" successful in anything. It leads to a sea of other innovation across multiple spectrum. On the Notes of Retail, Apple had ~430 Stores in 2014, ~460 in 2015. As of end 2018 it is ~510, all the stores opened in 2015 were planned before Angela's arrival, so effectively she has slowed down the…

Apple is not just chasing luxury, they’re chasing tech as fashion. They realized that when people carry their tech with them all the time it becomes fashion. That’s why they bought Beats, because it became a huge tech-fashion brand that threatened Apple. And with fashion people are willing to pay much higher prices.

ugh, the old "Apple is trendy/fashionable" argument.

Apple is like Nike.

Fashion and design are elevated as first-class concerns along - and rarely conflicting - with functionality and ubiquity. Yes, they cost more than the bargain basement, but actually span a wide range of price, otherwise they'd be as rare and exclusive as Hermès bags - yet everyone seems to have an iPhone, just like everyone seems to have a pair of Nikes.

Apple is not "chasing tech as fashion" - they make holistic products that a very small segment of the population perceives strictly as "trendy fashion." Millionaires wear Nikes to fashion shows, and your dad mows the lawn in Nikes.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#117

Post by rchaud »

kettlecorn wrote: post #93
ksec wrote: post #70

Roger McNamee seems to get it, the iPhone was probably the most successful technology product in history, and arguably the "most" successful in anything. It leads to a sea of other innovation across multiple spectrum. On the Notes of Retail, Apple had ~430 Stores in 2014, ~460 in 2015. As of end 2018 it is ~510, all the stores opened in 2015 were planned before Angela's arrival, so effectively she has slowed down the…

Apple is not just chasing luxury, they’re chasing tech as fashion. They realized that when people carry their tech with them all the time it becomes fashion. That’s why they bought Beats, because it became a huge tech-fashion brand that threatened Apple. And with fashion people are willing to pay much higher prices.

They haven't done anything with Beats though aside from rebranding the streaming service as Apple Music.

I rarely see Beats headphones out in the wild, and they used to be very common 5-6 years ago. Airpods are more common now as a status symbol.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#118

Post by lern_too_spel »

stephencanon wrote: post #114
newnewpdro wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would expect them to suffer in China as well if the cause were economic, which I believe is the point the parent is making.

That’s a reasonable interpretation, thanks. I’m not sure that it tells us much given that Apple and Hermès are in fairly different markets, unfortunately.

They're both in the luxury fashion market in China.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#119

Post by roboys »

free652 wrote: post #79
yonkshi wrote: post #76

Currently visiting China for Chinese New Year, and can't help but to notice the anti-US anti-Apple sentiment that arose recently. Although anecdotal, I think the nationalistic sentiment has a lot to do with the dip in sales. To put in perspective, most Chinese netizens are generally pretty critical of the Chinese gov. Chinese with higher educations usually look up to western culture and products. However after the Hu…

For some reason I doubt that you have the right perspective. Chinese are very nationalistic and every non immigrant Chinese I met is pro Chinese government. Netcitizens are even worse. American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales'…

China's economy has less to do with iPhone sales decline than the fact that Apple's smartphone innovation has plateaued. There is no "must-have" feature in the current gen iPhone that requires an upgrade, especially not for $1200+. The jig is up.

Expect AAPL to decline from now on unless they pivot or get some balls and use that stockpiled cash to experiment heavily. Tim Cook is not willing to burn cash on R &D like he needs to maintain a major competitive edge.

Re: Apple's iPhone Shipments Plunge in China as Huawei Tightens Grip

#120

Post by rchaud »

scarface74 wrote: post #90
pjmlp wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would buy a previous generation iPhone when they can buy a modern Android generation phone for the half the price?

A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. The 6s from 2015 was faster than the flagship Galaxy S8 in single core performance. Also, that Android phone you buy will stop getting updates in 18 months if you’re lucky. The iPhone 5s from 2013 is still running the latest OS.

> A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower.

Slower in doing what? Posting a pic/video on Wechat? Making a money transfer? Playing a game?

Phones today are where the PC market was about a decade ago when 4GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo SoCs became common and offered enough performance for users to not have to upgrade their laptop every 3-5 years.

We don't have to look at AnandTech-style benchmark analysis anymore to figure out whether a midrange Android in 2019 will serve most needs.

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