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Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

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Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#21

Post by jerkstate »

Johnny555 wrote: post #13
jerkstate wrote: post #8

Overselling airline seats is pretty typical, but is there any reason for the check-in agent to give the ticketholder false hope? That just seems like passing the buck to the gate agent.

To sell the seat? If they tell the customer "Well, we're not sure if you have a seat, go ask the gate agent", then some customers will not want to bother and will cancel or change their flight -- so the airline goes from an overbooking situation to an underbooking situation, which costs the airline money.

Well I have checked in on oversold flights before but never has a check in agent ever told me "don't worry about it, you'll get a seat for sure" - they have always been honest about how the process will work at the gate and usually give me a decent guess at the likelihood that I'll get a seat, offer to rebook (usually you have to ask to have them look for flights on other carriers, but they are required to do that if possible), but they usually can't offer as many incentives (miles, vouchers) there like they can at the gate. What this check in agent is claiming to do on Air Canadas behalf just sounds unnecessarily cruel.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#22

Post by skookumchuck »

jtchang wrote: post #9

I'm not surprised airlines do this. I don't think it is just Air Canada. In a way it makes sense but it does make me think they are a bit greedy. If someone buys a ticket and does not show up for a flight then usually they don't get a refund/credit (or a crappy one: I'm looking at you United). But now the airline has an empty seat. The best thing to do is fill it. But you can't fill it the last moment so you need to…

If airplanes routinely fly with empty seats, that means they need more airplanes flying to move the passengers. This isn't very environmentally friendly.

People should support airplanes flying full.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#23

Post by gruez »

I get how overbooking is a good thing (by increasing utilization and decreasing prices), but the way it's implemented at most places (buried in the fine print and/or legalized by legislation) leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I'd be much more okay with overbooking if it was opt-in (or for that matter, opt out), with a clear cost that's conveyed to the passenger.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#24

Post by tomhoward »

It's been discussed on HN before [1], but it's worth mentioning in this thread that there's a YC-backed company – Volantio – working to solve this specific problem.

Most airlines' position is that they have to oversell flights, otherwise planes will fly with empty seats unnecessarily.

But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different flight once they are at the gate awaiting boarding [this sentence was edited in response to kortilla's comment below].

Volantio's product applies sophisticated analysis to each flight's booking levels well before departure time (days or weeks before), and will send offers to passengers to offer incentives to transfer to less-full flights, allowing plenty of time for them to change their plans.

So far the product seems to be having an impact for passengers [2], gate staff [3] and airline management [4].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16836991

[2] https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/qantas-...

[3] https://www.volantio.com/alaska-airlines-improves-denied-boa...

[4] https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/indigo-p...

Disclosure: Volantio was a pivot from Adioso (YC W09), of which I was a co-founder. I'm no longer an active employee or significant shareholder. However I remain friends with the team and am pleased to see them doing well and solving an important problem.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#25

Post by jnordwick »

jtchang wrote: post #9

I'm not surprised airlines do this. I don't think it is just Air Canada. In a way it makes sense but it does make me think they are a bit greedy. If someone buys a ticket and does not show up for a flight then usually they don't get a refund/credit (or a crappy one: I'm looking at you United). But now the airline has an empty seat. The best thing to do is fill it. But you can't fill it the last moment so you need to…

The US airlines make on avg $17.75 per passenger with a profit margin of about 9%.

http://money.com/money/5158363/airline-profit-per-passenger/

That's pretty far from greedy.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#27

Post by khuey »

Johnny555 wrote: post #17
devoply wrote: post #4

There should be a law to disclose this sort of information when you purchase a ticket... as well as the probability that you will be denied passage on the flight you are booking... In fact you could even make it so that they tell you the alternative you will be offered if that event occurs. They could even offer a premium price to guarantee your flight. The whole point is to make this process more predictable for tra…

They could even offer a premium price to guarantee your flight They do -- they call it a "full fare ticket" -- airlines bend over backwards to accommodate these full fare fliers, even if it means bumping a paid economy passenger from the flight. Though it's a pretty steep fee -- usually several times more than the restricted fare.

The SkyTeam alliance guarantees its frequent fliers (people who hold SkyTeam Elite Plus status) that they can buy a full Y-class fare on a completely sold out flight and they'll kick someone else off to put them on.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#28

Post by un_montagnard »

Passengers would stop complaining or even start volunteering if Air Canada was offering them a monetary compensation for postponing their trip to the next flight. This is what happens in Europe and getting 300€ to wait 4 hours in an airport is not too bad if you're not in a hurry.

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#29

Post by throw_away2 »

jnordwick wrote: post #25
jtchang wrote: post #9

I'm not surprised airlines do this. I don't think it is just Air Canada. In a way it makes sense but it does make me think they are a bit greedy. If someone buys a ticket and does not show up for a flight then usually they don't get a refund/credit (or a crappy one: I'm looking at you United). But now the airline has an empty seat. The best thing to do is fill it. But you can't fill it the last moment so you need to…

The US airlines make on avg $17.75 per passenger with a profit margin of about 9%. http://money.com/money/5158363/airline-profit-per-passenger/ That's pretty far from greedy.

The very next sentence after that quote is:

> This per-passenger profit is roughly double what airlines around the world make per passenger, according to the International Air Transport Association

Re: Air Canada agents reveal overselling practices

#30

Post by hndamien »

tomhoward wrote: post #24

It's been discussed on HN before [1], but it's worth mentioning in this thread that there's a YC-backed company – Volantio – working to solve this specific problem. Most airlines' position is that they have to oversell flights, otherwise planes will fly with empty seats unnecessarily. But from passengers' point of view, there aren't always enough people who'll voluntarily accept an offer to transfer to a different fl…

Well done, Adioso was fantastic.
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