On Being a Principal *Software Engineer
This isn't Oil Drilling News, I thing we'll all cope with the ambiguity
Actually, as a mechanical engineer at a consumer products startup, I would have appreciated this clarification.
On Being a Principal Engineer
61–70 of 337 posts
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was hired into a company as a staff engineer, and I probably won’t consider it again. The existing engineers resented me for it, though it was super clear that the product was suffering because the existing engineers had serious skill gaps in critical areas. Meanwhile, to other managers & directors, I was just some new engineer they didn’t know, a political unknown quantity. I hit the ground running and earned a lo…
> The next time I will require the role to be some type of director or IC/distinguished engineer hybrid that is operating with an authority level above that. I've seen this go roughly. A director who brings in a lot of new technical views, challenging the perspectives and opinions held by the team, might not have an easier time than a staff engineer. The director was largely right, but dealt not just with technical r…
The difference is usually in terms of negotiating details about the budget & resources you’ll have when you join, your own much larger severance package or equity package with acceleration provisions, etc.
Based on the degree of resources they put into you at a director level, the option is disallowed for other people to fail to work constructively to onboard your new ideas / approaches.
Definitely still may not work out, but it’s a different ballgame than a high level engineering hire, which (however foolish) many companies will still view like they are sweetening some pot just with the title and don’t have any plans to honor the agreed nature of the role.
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
"But I am also at this weird point where I am not sure if the title of "staff/principle" can be transferred to another company. A lot of the value that I add now is because of the historical knowledge I have. What we have tried as a company, what we haven't, why we built some things the way we did, how things work currently, how the politics works and the trust I have built. " This worries me too. Within my company I…
I'm in exactly this situation, at Senior Staff level. It is quite possible that a person is actually getting paid enough to make it hard for them to leave, which seems strange because it's not not the norm. The company may want to keep them because of what they can do for that company, not because of their potential market value to another company. They may know things about you, that are hard for you to communicate…
> Think about how you treat people on your way up, because you will meet them again on the way down.
That’s an incredible saying. It really encapsulates the “fall from grace” that a lot of celebrities experience. Never saw it put in a way that would relate it to my life. Thanks for sharing!
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#64The relentless force of 'job title inflation' ensures there will be levels above Principal. (For instance, some organizations have 'Senior Principal'.)
This is necessary because there are different grades of programmers. Frankly, some are better than others and social pressures force us to acknowledge it in some way.
It's been this way as long as I remember, one of the first things I was issued at my first programming shop was a chart that enumerated who was an entry-level 'E07', who were mid-level 'E08s and E09s' and who had reached the coveted rank of 'E10'. The groupings will probably be similar no matter where you go, though the titles will change.
I think it's a natural workplace dynamic.
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#65This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…
> I am not sure if the title of "staff/principle" can be transferred
It depends on how you got to be a principal. If you fell into the role because of accumulated knowledge and promotions, probably not. If you are self-driven, work to achieve complete knowledge of your company's products and technologies, push for high standards, and can transfer knowledge well to others...yes.
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#66This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…
"But I am also at this weird point where I am not sure if the title of "staff/principle" can be transferred to another company. A lot of the value that I add now is because of the historical knowledge I have. What we have tried as a company, what we haven't, why we built some things the way we did, how things work currently, how the politics works and the trust I have built. " This worries me too. Within my company I…
People who leave your company may poach you some day, so continue your quality work and keep in touch with them. That is called networking.
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#67This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…
Tribal knowledge is good to have, and inevitable, but it is also a blinder that tends to limit people to a particular set of architectural assumptions, and this gets worse the older the company becomes. It’s also an obstacle to bringing in new people. Some people are able to join a company and expand/modernize/build on the tribal knowledge to make things better. It’s a rare gift but I’ve seen a few people do it. Peop…
Thank you for the simple description of this. I've struggled to describe what I enjoy (and like to believe I'm good at).
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
"But I am also at this weird point where I am not sure if the title of "staff/principle" can be transferred to another company. A lot of the value that I add now is because of the historical knowledge I have. What we have tried as a company, what we haven't, why we built some things the way we did, how things work currently, how the politics works and the trust I have built. " This worries me too. Within my company I…
> I don't think any leverage I have my with my current company will translate into finding jobs at other companies. You are right. Even if you are at FAANG, it doesn't really translate to a new environment, unless you are a direct pick by a CTO (you have to be famous in some way) or use your networking, which I consider unethical and don't do it.
I think you misunderstand networking.
Perhaps you think it's a way for people to create and then exploit their connections in order to get a job that they're clearly unqualified for. I will agree that's unethical.
But that's not typically what networking is about, almost no one wants to recommend someone for a job if that person turns out to be an unqualified idiot. Networking is more about finding people/companies you have something in common with and once they know about you it's a lot easier to get hired or referred.
It's not really about some form of nepotism or cronyism.
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> use your networking, which I consider unethical and don't do it. I don't understand the sentiment. Interviews are a proxy for how good you are. The companies hiring are very limited by what kind of information they can turn up about a candidate just through that process and for higher leveled positions like staff+ that might rarely be enough. Your network can speak much better about who you are and what value you c…
I have seen how groups of people with dubious ethical standards played whole companies, pushing each other forward at the expense of more capable people, later taking their cronies with them to whatever company they landed, applying the same strategy. One of them made it to a director position at Google, largely propelled by "great networking". I can't with clear conscience support cronyism that deprives others of th…
cronyism and networking are quite different things though
Re: On Being a Principal Engineer
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience it’s rare for orgs to hire for principal/staff/architect roles. What I’ve seen instead is people getting hired on as senior engineers and get promoted up from there after they’ve settled into the org.
I was hired into a company as a staff engineer, and I probably won’t consider it again. The existing engineers resented me for it, though it was super clear that the product was suffering because the existing engineers had serious skill gaps in critical areas. Meanwhile, to other managers & directors, I was just some new engineer they didn’t know, a political unknown quantity. I hit the ground running and earned a lo…
This probably had more to do with the org and the role than the title. Management probably recognized the gaps and shortcomings of the team, but never had buy-in from the team that these are problems and more senior people can help with them.