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On Being a Principal Engineer

blog.dbsmasher.com

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Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#11

Post by vostok »

ryanong wrote: post #2

This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…

> In the past year, I have seen less than 5 job posting for a staff engineer.

Isn't this "just" a matter of getting leveled at L6/65/etc as opposed to applying to an advertisement that's only looking for staff level engineers?

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#12

Post by TheGRS »

mooreds wrote: post #6
mxstbr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are right that seniority at the specific company plays a large role. Anecdotally, I was told that GitHub does not hire from the outside above the senior level. Going from senior to principal engineer is expected to happen inside the company.

Which is interesting to me, because once you get to staff inside such a company, how would you move to a different company? Are you locked to the company because any other move would be a drastic reduction in comp (because it would be a drastic reduction in value)? Or are there transferable skills that are valuable enough that a transfer could happen at roughly the same comp level? I don't know but this is an interes…

At that point you would probably move into consulting.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#13

Post by sam0x17 »

d4mi3n wrote: post #5
ryanong wrote: post #2

This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…

In my experience it’s rare for orgs to hire for principal/staff/architect roles. What I’ve seen instead is people getting hired on as senior engineers and get promoted up from there after they’ve settled into the org.

And at some places the "senior" engineer IS the principal/staff/architect.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#14

Post by d4mi3n »

sam0x17 wrote: post #13
d4mi3n wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience it’s rare for orgs to hire for principal/staff/architect roles. What I’ve seen instead is people getting hired on as senior engineers and get promoted up from there after they’ve settled into the org.

And at some places the "senior" engineer IS the principal/staff/architect.

Flat orgs at their finest.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#16

Post by mooreds »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #9
xtreak29 wrote: post #7

Is there a path where one can get to work on code without getting to design and architectural space. Is this thought as career stagnation when someone doesn't wants to work more on higher level design and to remain close to implementation side of things?

Ultimately it's going to come down to the value you provide the company. The reason senior engineers get paid more than juniors is because of the value they provide over a junior. The same applies to principal over senior and so on. Eventually, there is only so much value you can provide if you limit your skills to one specific area and are unwilling to expand. I can't speak for every company, but I imagine that if y…

It's all about leverage. If you are a tremendous coder, do you have more leverage to build business value than someone who can enable a team of five? And can your organization recognize it?

The answer for most people and organizations is no.

(Edited to fix typo)

I also think it is worth recognizing that the challenges of higher abstractions can be kinda fun. Different but fun.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#17

Post by skywhopper »

d4mi3n wrote: post #3

Interesting article. A lot of the qualities the author descrives as required trains of a principal are things I always say a senior engineer/tech team lead should have—e.g. ability to act as a force multiplier, leading by example, and being active in less technical activities like mentorship and recruiting. Am I off the mark? I suspect I may just not have been at enough orgs with a well developed career track, what t…

I think it depends on the organization. But I think the distinction made in other comments is a good one. You can't really be a "principal" until you are familiar with the organization, the products, the people. And in reality, while most every engineer can become a "senior" contributor, only a few senior-level people can have the impact being described here to truly be a "principal".

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#18

Post by ryanong »

xtreak29 wrote: post #7

Is there a path where one can get to work on code without getting to design and architectural space. Is this thought as career stagnation when someone doesn't wants to work more on higher level design and to remain close to implementation side of things?

I would call it more of a plateau than stagnation. The senior title is a pretty beautiful spot, well paid and always more to learn but the value to the company is limited to the work you get done. You may be able to get it done faster and better than anyone else, but there are diminishing returns on speed and quality of an individual. I miss being a senior sometimes. Being able to go heads down and pair with someone all day on a problem was a great feeling, but I enjoy how much I help my coworkers/friends.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#19

Post by maxxxxx »

ryanong wrote: post #2

This rings true to my experience. I'm a Staff engineer and of my 40 hour week about 10-15 of those hours are interviews, meetings, and answering questions. Questions about technical feasibility, architectural discussions and planning, long term strategic planning, and lots of one offs from other developers. I enjoy the soft work I do, a lot of emotional labor for other developers, soft sells for tech/feature work aro…

"But I am also at this weird point where I am not sure if the title of "staff/principle" can be transferred to another company. A lot of the value that I add now is because of the historical knowledge I have. What we have tried as a company, what we haven't, why we built some things the way we did, how things work currently, how the politics works and the trust I have built. "

This worries me too. Within my company I have a pretty good reputation due to experience but I am not famous in the industry so I don't think any leverage I have my with my current company will translate into finding jobs at other companies.

That's a pattern I actually see quite often. People go very high in one company, but when something happens and they leave that company due to layoffs or other reasons they often find jobs only several levels lower and have to work themselves up again.

Re: On Being a Principal Engineer

#20

Post by TheGRS »

xtreak29 wrote: post #7

Is there a path where one can get to work on code without getting to design and architectural space. Is this thought as career stagnation when someone doesn't wants to work more on higher level design and to remain close to implementation side of things?

In this current market I would say there's absolutely a stagnation if you are not finding other ways to provide value. There are others coming up from behind who can arguably provide the same value of just coding without thinking much about strategic decisions down the road, and they might be cheaper to boot. And those people might be more willing later on to take on the mantle of these decisions.
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