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John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

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Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#11

Post by adgasf »

geezerjay wrote: post #5
rienbdj wrote: post #3

C++ continues to lose mind-share. When will the community acknowledge that their tooling is lacking?

A tool is a tool. It's immaterial if a particular tool like C++ and its ecosystem is no longer the best available tool for some applications. Workmen pick the tool that best suits their tasks, and if a better tool appears it makes no sense to assume that the old tool requires more attention.

C++ has many users that love the language but are in denial that other languages have advanced beyond it (not in all areas, of course, but enough areas that matter).

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#13

Post by cuddlecake »

geezerjay wrote: post #5
rienbdj wrote: post #3

C++ continues to lose mind-share. When will the community acknowledge that their tooling is lacking?

A tool is a tool. It's immaterial if a particular tool like C++ and its ecosystem is no longer the best available tool for some applications. Workmen pick the tool that best suits their tasks, and if a better tool appears it makes no sense to assume that the old tool requires more attention.

> Workmen pick the tool that best suits their tasks

Workmen also carry the burden of maintaining old (legacy) products.

No one would say no to a shiny new feature that makes tedious stuff easier.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#14

Post by jabl »

bsaul wrote: post #4

Many comments in twitter mentions rust still not being ready for server code ( which i start to feel strange since concurrency is the only major issue on the server side, and supposed to be rust strength). Anyone can confirm ?

Concurrency, as in multiple OS threads communicating is nicely done, with the borrow checker being able prevent some fairly common multi-thread pitfalls. So for things like data parallelism etc. Rust is already looking pretty good.

For server-side stuff, what's not yet done is some infrastructure and improved ergonomics for writing asynchronous or non-blocking code. See https://areweasyncyet.rs/ . And then when the infrastructure is there, it'll take a while before the higher-level frameworks take advantage of it.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#15

Post by Waterluvian »

When I explored rust I found the exact same feeling too, but couldn't find that word.

My only issue is how surprisingly weak Rust support is in my favourite editor. Rust seems to feel more popular than it is. Or maybe more people write Rust in a "no frills notepad" kind of way.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#16

Post by Dowwie »

bsaul wrote: post #4

Many comments in twitter mentions rust still not being ready for server code ( which i start to feel strange since concurrency is the only major issue on the server side, and supposed to be rust strength). Anyone can confirm ?

Microsoft is using actix libraries and creating many new rust libraries for their Azure IOT platform. Azure IOT is all about safety at very high speeds, making Rust a great fit for their work.

I don't work there.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#17

Post by pornel »

n_t wrote: post #8
bsaul wrote: post #4

Many comments in twitter mentions rust still not being ready for server code ( which i start to feel strange since concurrency is the only major issue on the server side, and supposed to be rust strength). Anyone can confirm ?

I have used rust but I think it has another year before it really shines. 2020 is the year of Rust - async/await, tool ecosystem, various crate stability, etc is happening fast.

While you'll hear Rust community often say "just wait until this new hotness", I'd like to clarify it's not like a perpetual "it will be the year of Linux Desktop".

Rust has already shipped everything it needed to be production ready. We're just always excited for the next big thing. Two years ago it was incremental compilation, last year it was a new borrow checker, this year it's async/await, etc.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#18

Post by loup-vaillant »

geezerjay wrote: post #5
rienbdj wrote: post #3

C++ continues to lose mind-share. When will the community acknowledge that their tooling is lacking?

A tool is a tool. It's immaterial if a particular tool like C++ and its ecosystem is no longer the best available tool for some applications. Workmen pick the tool that best suits their tasks, and if a better tool appears it makes no sense to assume that the old tool requires more attention.

> A tool is a tool.

Oh yes it is. Which means, a tool is an extension of oneself. We tend to identify ourselves with our tools, especially if they required extensive learning. The simplest tools (hammer) are easily replaced, but the more complex ones (my cello) are highly personal, and seldom swapped.

Programming languages fall on the complex end of the spectrum. They require learning, and to some extent, what you learn is what you are. Throwing away a programming language (and its ecosystem) is throwing away a good chunk of the knowledge you acquired there —a part of yourself. A new language needs to have one hell of an advantage to get significant adoption under those conditions.

And I didn't even talk about network effects…

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#19

Post by steveklabnik »

pornel wrote: post #17
n_t wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used rust but I think it has another year before it really shines. 2020 is the year of Rust - async/await, tool ecosystem, various crate stability, etc is happening fast.

While you'll hear Rust community often say "just wait until this new hotness", I'd like to clarify it's not like a perpetual "it will be the year of Linux Desktop". Rust has already shipped everything it needed to be production ready. We're just always excited for the next big thing. Two years ago it was incremental compilation, last year it was a new borrow checker, this year it's async/await, etc.

This is also true. It really is about what you’re doing. Async/await in particular enables you to write idiomatic code, right now you have to twist it a bit and can’t do certain things. Other features? I agree with you.

Re: John Carmack: writing Rust code feels wholesome

#20

Post by x15 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #15

When I explored rust I found the exact same feeling too, but couldn't find that word. My only issue is how surprisingly weak Rust support is in my favourite editor. Rust seems to feel more popular than it is. Or maybe more people write Rust in a "no frills notepad" kind of way.

vscode has pretty good support for rust.

If you need something more advanced, you can try clion from jetbrains with the intellij-rust plug-in.

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