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Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

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Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#61
post #26

Pitchfork mobs dictating policy, that is why you don't elect an ex state attorney general to the legislative branch: prosecution and grandstanding is all they know. Also the principle concept of "stealing your data" is more ludicrous than "stealing" in the copyright sense; that data is meta data and it's not yours, it was generated by machines you don't own and have no claim over.

Let's say someone really hates Facebook. What exactly is their recourse for them to say 'I don't want you to keep a shadow profile and I don't want you to sell or use that in any way shape for form'. In that case, they're directly monetizing data about me as a person.

That person can simply choose not to use Facebook.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#62
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering right now companies like Facebook are very actively making the world a worse place I would say this would be a strong move towards something better.

Facebook is people and people suck. Facebook is also a scapegoat and to the contrary of what a resentful media industry would like you to believe the sum of their contributions to the world is overwhelmingly positive

Facebook is the tip of the iceberg. For every bad story about Facebook there's at least a dozen about Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Uber, AirBnB, and smaller players.

Regulation designed to rein in the heavy hitters will not harm small startups, especially ones whose innovation is built upon careful flouting of law and loophole-seeking, anyway.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say someone really hates Facebook. What exactly is their recourse for them to say 'I don't want you to keep a shadow profile and I don't want you to sell or use that in any way shape for form'. In that case, they're directly monetizing data about me as a person.

That person can simply choose not to use Facebook.

"Shadow Profile"

https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/11/17225482/facebook-shadow-...

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say someone really hates Facebook. What exactly is their recourse for them to say 'I don't want you to keep a shadow profile and I don't want you to sell or use that in any way shape for form'. In that case, they're directly monetizing data about me as a person.

That person can simply choose not to use Facebook.

Really? What about non-users shadow profiles?

"In a line of questioning from Rep. Ben Lujan, a Democrat from New Mexico, Zuckerberg allowed that his company creates profiles on people who don’t actually use Facebook — what are sometimes referred to as “shadow profiles.”"

https://slate.com/technology/2018/04/facebook-collects-data-...

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#65
post #60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah let's restrict, ban and kill every new idea in it's crib, that'll surly make the world a better place, I'm happy you're enjoying your time in this entrepreneur community. Let's also make sure all future gains are made by the lawyers and other middle men so that world peace will finally be at hand.

Can you elaborate on the sum of facebooks contributions being positive? Not disagreeing here, I just don’t know what contributions you are referring to.

It's not about Facebook, it is about some startup you have never heard of that actually is doing something positive for the world and suddenly finds its business smothered by poorly thought out regulations. Considering that we have powerful congressmen who do not even understand Facebook's business model (and whose staff failed to explain it to them) does not give me confidence in Congress' ability to craft constructive regulation.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#66
Looking at actual bill, it proposes:

- Creating a paid "no tracking" option. Obvious failure mode: the option price is $100M, and anybody who uses it is unable to use 99% of the functionality, since it requires some form of tracking. Obvious next step - the law requiring this option to be no more than 10% more expensive than regular membership. Obvious next failure mode: inapplicable to sites that do not charge for membership. Obvious next step - creating a government commission empowered to decide what sites are supposed to charge for "no tracking" membership and which services it is supposed to cover. If you like your site subscription - you can keep your site subscription.

- Penalize large companies that submit false information in their annual privacy report - thought submitting false information to any government agency is a crime anyway? And for a public company, I assume publishing almost any false report would immediately put them under the shadow of fraud charges from SEC. So declaring something that is already a crime a crime again is supposed to... what?

- Require companies to assess their algorithms for accuracy, fairness, bias and discrimination. Obvious failure mode: who does the assessment? Obvious next step: creating a government commission empowered to approve algorithm fairness assessment standards. Obvious failure mode: since nobody knows what "fairness" it, it turns into another partisan tug of war, to be used as a club against companies affiliated with opposite tribe or just representing a good jumpstart to the next political campaign. Reasonable academic discussion of algorithmic bias becomes impossible, buried under layers of partisan tribal rhetoric and professional offense miners. Billions are spent annually on "bias prevention", without any shade of solution on the horizon, on the contrary, the problem becomes worse every day - at least if you're listen to bias prevention industry, but they're the only ones who are allowed to speak on the topic.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the sum of facebooks contributions being positive? Not disagreeing here, I just don’t know what contributions you are referring to.

It's not about Facebook, it is about some startup you have never heard of that actually is doing something positive for the world and suddenly finds its business smothered by poorly thought out regulations. Considering that we have powerful congressmen who do not even understand Facebook's business model (and whose staff failed to explain it to them) does not give me confidence in Congress' ability to craft construct…

That's a terrifying possibility.

Are there any actual case studies and examples of tech startups being killed by regulation? Or is this a campfire story that is retold whenever the possibility of regulation is mentioned.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't sell your private messages. What they actually do is just give them away to business partners. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/technology/facebook-priva... > Facebook allowed Microsoft’s Bing search engine to see the names of virtually all Facebook users’ friends without consent, the records show, and gave Netflix and Spotify the ability to read Facebook users’ private messages.

No, they didn’t “give it away”. Please let’s stick to facts. The news is being extremely dishonest. Apps that you could send FB messages through could see the message (how else would it work?) And it was explicitly opt-in, users had to authorize it. “Take Spotify for example. After signing in to your Facebook account in Spotify’s desktop app, you could then send and receive messages without ever leaving the app. Our…

Read that quote again. It only says opt-in was needed to use this „feature“, not for data access. And that does not even include the other parties in those messages.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#69
post #26

Pitchfork mobs dictating policy, that is why you don't elect an ex state attorney general to the legislative branch: prosecution and grandstanding is all they know. Also the principle concept of "stealing your data" is more ludicrous than "stealing" in the copyright sense; that data is meta data and it's not yours, it was generated by machines you don't own and have no claim over.

> that data is meta data and it's not yours, it was generated by machines you don't own and have no claim over I'm pretty sure that, for example, the list of grocery brands someone buys using a store loyalty card isn't "metadata", and while "stealing" is hyperbole, I'm pretty sure most people would be upset upon realizing how far and wide that information is being sold.

People might be upset about a lot of things, the question is whether you have legal ownership on the knowledge about the facts about you. Can you sue somebody for disclosing true information about you as "theft"? Is writing a Wikipedia article about you means "stealing" your life facts? Does making your photo steal your soul? I'm pretty sure the only reason to use "steal" in this context is to hopelessly confuse the matter.

Re: Proposed Jail Time for Tech Companies Who Steal Data

#70
post #41

Is personal information really a kind of property, that can be stolen? If it is, aren’t we doing this all the time, any time we perceive anything about anyone? How is this different than taking a picture of someone? The image is owned by the photographer, not the subject(s) according to current laws. if I meet someone on the street, and record their name, the conversation we had, and the location where I met them, an…

I'm reasonably comfortable with a company keeping records of its interactions with me, as long as they're taking proper precautions to keep it secure.

Where I draw the line is when they start sharing it with third parties, especially without my consent.

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