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Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

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Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#281

Post by thaumasiotes »

Ivoirians wrote: post #247
andrepd wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me ads are fundamentally about misleading you, manipulating you, or in short: making you do something that you wouldn't do otherwise. This to me is morally wrong on a base level. Advertisement is an attempt to attack/manipulate your vulnerable mammal brain to make you do something against your interest (be it buying a product, voting on someone, etc). In other words, to do something that you wouldn't do rationally…

People don't act against their self-interest unless deceived. There are misleading ads that are immoral like "payday loans can get you out of debt", but the vast majority of ads (that I see) are informational, like "store X is having a sale". That's just giving me information to make a decision about ("$N is a reasonable amount for me to spend on this thing I didn't previously want"). I could make a similarly wrong b…

> People don't act against their self-interest unless deceived.

They can also be stupid.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#282

Post by engineeringwoke »

manigandham wrote: post #277
engineeringwoke wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am aware. That's why I quit finance, taught myself software engineering, and moved to northern Europe. Combing through my post history is a pathetic attempt at saving damage to your precious ego

I think you lost the topic here. The OP was talking about judging people based on just having Facebook on their resume. Likewise, under that rule, you too would be judged for having worked in finance. Your history is therefore relevant, and by your arguments I'm assuming you think it's fair to judge that way? Good for you for changing careers but that doesn't make you better than anyone else nor is it applicable to a…

I'm okay with a prospective employer judging my finance past similarly to a past that includes Facebook. Ego has everything to do with failed ad hominem attacks, my friend

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#283

Post by oppositelock »

ishanjain28 wrote: post #268
duxup wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a fun challenge. It's just ads. If we're talking about some ad for a coffee maker, whatever. Now their whole selling data to unscrupulous folks, taking money from parents via their kids, selling fake news that makes people hate other people (now that gets into the ad space...) .... That's where I'd want to nope out.

There was an study done on some students from top universities in US. The question they were given was, If they would work for Facebook given all kinds of scandals they were involved in. A lot of people said they wouldn't work for Facebook but later when some of them received offers nobody declined those offers and went on to work for Facebook. I am wondering if the same experiment on people already working in indust…

It's hard to infer any conclusion from those numbers because we don't know how many people refused to interview and never received an offer.

Facebook pays REALLY well. That's a big deal fresh out of school too. Not all of us have the luxury of turning down a giant paycheck.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#284

Post by justapassenger »

dsr_ wrote: post #34
badgers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of a quote about dentistry: "You're in a career where nobody wants to see you and you're the last place they want to come back to and it's depressing." ( https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/5344jz/are-dentists-rea... )

A dentist's parents are usually proud of them. "What are you doing at work these days, kid?" "I'm inventing new ways to make people see advertising." "Have you considered doing something positive with your life?"

My wife is genuinely happy to see ads. My parents are happy, that their small business can advertise, that allow them to sell product, pay their employees and support themselves.

Ads aren't root of all evil.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#285

Post by root_axis »

reaperducer wrote: post #214
manigandham wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a giant company with many roles. I'd be more worried about people hiring based on such strange judgements of character.

I'd be more worried about people hiring based on such strange judgements of character. I wouldn't. Over the decades I've seen many people hire, and later regret hiring, people who demonstrated poor character. In a more public sense, remember the Bush-Clinton election where the full version of the fabled "It's the economy, stupid" slogan was "Character doesn't matter; it's the economy, stupid." And we see what happene…

Would you apply the same hiring filters to military vets? Police officers? Petrolium Engineers?

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#286

Post by steve_adams_86 »

locklock wrote: post #11

I'm really thankful I haven't yet had a job where all I'm developing is new ways to force people to see ads. Imagine working on a 'feature' like this for weeks or months, and the end result is simply that people who don't want to see ads now have to see ads.

I did this. I helped build the Air Installer network. I truly regret it. If you look up that name, all you get is people worried that it installed viruses or malware (guess what... it did) and how to remove it. The other results you'll see include the owners trying to sell its virtues. As though it's anything other than a way to exploit unsuspecting internet users for money.

I was young and naive, and I didn't think we were using it for malicious purposes. It ended up being worse than I imagined in the end. I left on bad terms and felt like a complete fool. These days I hear adtech companies pay well - I didn't even get that. Just a genuine waste of life and career time.

I discourage as many developers as I can from going into adtech. I met the worst types of people in that industry.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#287

Post by mattlong »

ishanjain28 wrote: post #268
duxup wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a fun challenge. It's just ads. If we're talking about some ad for a coffee maker, whatever. Now their whole selling data to unscrupulous folks, taking money from parents via their kids, selling fake news that makes people hate other people (now that gets into the ad space...) .... That's where I'd want to nope out.

There was an study done on some students from top universities in US. The question they were given was, If they would work for Facebook given all kinds of scandals they were involved in. A lot of people said they wouldn't work for Facebook but later when some of them received offers nobody declined those offers and went on to work for Facebook. I am wondering if the same experiment on people already working in indust…

"Principles have no real force except when one is well fed."

-Mark Twain

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#288

Post by edoceo »

thebaer wrote: post #246
edoceo wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make it clear what you're selling and why it's worth $10 / month, and people will pay you. It's not as big of a problem as you think. If only all buyers were as rational as you. IMO the problem is bigger (by far) than just make a case and people pay.

I guess my point was that parent shouldn't assume defeat based on some HN comments and the fact that "everybody just does ads." My statement is a simplification of what it takes to sell a product, yes, but IMHO this still isn't a big enough obstacle to justify the idea that "ads are the only way." What are some of the bigger problems you see?

My problem is that even with a sold, demonstrable value-prop and 100s of solid references it's not trivial to get paid by clients. Getting customers is Hard Work(tm).

I hate intrusive ads but totally see why some folks "need" that for their revenue, selling is hard, dropping bulshot ads on my site is trivial.

For my own blog/content I've generated more revenue selling consulting labour from prospects finding my blog than from ads.

Re: Facebook adds 5 divs, 9 spans and 30 CSS classes to every post in the timeline

#289

Post by sjjshvuiajhz »

andrepd wrote: post #164
asdkhadsj wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I feel like ads have such a bad rap because of the state of the internet. Yet, what does everyone expect? Is it shocking that content providers want money for their product? And yes, I know, some sites and ads do terrible things. The actively hurt viewership. BUT, isn't that the same with everything ? Even my groceries are getting worse as companies seek ways to increase profits without pissing me off; the…

To me ads are fundamentally about misleading you, manipulating you, or in short: making you do something that you wouldn't do otherwise. This to me is morally wrong on a base level. Advertisement is an attempt to attack/manipulate your vulnerable mammal brain to make you do something against your interest (be it buying a product, voting on someone, etc). In other words, to do something that you wouldn't do rationally…

What if I took your argument, and instead of making it about ads, made it about all human communication? Isn’t all communication intended to influence the thoughts of the listener? I don’t think attempting to influence someone’s behavior to your gain by providing them with information is inherently immoral - we all do it constantly (eg. when messaging a friend to ask them over for a drink, I am manipulating them so I can enjoy their company).

Unlike a lot of communication, advertising is paid, which is certainly relevant. I get it if you’re against commerce as a whole - if you believe that any interaction motivated by money is inherently exploitative, I’m sympathetic.

But if you aren’t willing to go there, advertising is a healthy part of a well-functioning economy. If you’ve invested to develop a good product, one that users would happily pay for, one that has positive value (ie. you can make it for $10, it provides $30 of utility to the user, so you can sell it to the user for $20 and you and the user both gained $10 in utility), what is wrong with paying to inform people about it? Organic word of mouth is slow - if that were the only way we could find out about changes in what is available in the market, much less investment could be profitably made in improved products. Positive investment ROI requires a reliable pathway to tell people that you have something they might want, and advertisement is perfectly suited to fill that role.

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