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Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#21

Post by hannob »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #7

> The aim was to see if a guaranteed safety net would help people find jobs I'm confused, was that ever the expected goal of basic income?

It seems more like almost the opposite of the expected goal.

My main sympathy for a basic income is that "get people into jobs" so often comes up as an argument against all kinds of progressive changes (environment, shutting down harmful industries, automating bad jobs away, ...).

The goal of a basic income should be to let people without a job live a more fulfilling life.

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#22

Post by happytoexplain »

Simulacra wrote: post #5

I think it's human nature to do a little as possible for the most reward. If someone is giving you money to literally do nothing, then you're likely going to do..nothing!

I always have a really hard time relating to where this incredibly negative sentiment about people comes from. It seems like people look at times when other people are "lazy" and extrapolate it to all of humanity, but I think the perception of "lazy" in this context is just what it looks like when a person hates the work they're forced to do and/or is suffering and unhappy due to financial trouble. I feel like most people who seem to lay around doing nothing are doing so in the small time they have where they are not being psychologically and physically exhausted by their job, so it doesn't make sense to assume that's what they want to do.

It reminds me of the scene in Battlefield Earth where the aliens with a superiority complex release starving humans into an abandoned building and they eat the first thing they see - a rat. Aha, man's favorite food must be rats!

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#23

Post by verall »

mrybczyn wrote: post #16
Simulacra wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you gave me money with no requirement that I perform a task, or adhere to a set of rules, just free money in my lap, I'm going to use it to increase my level of joy and comfort, and avoidance of work. Granted I may take that money and spend it all on hookers and blow, but I will be doing what I want with that money, and not having to return any service or labor for it.

where will the hookers and blow come from if the hookers and dealers are on basic and doing nothing?

price rises until people start working as hookers and dealers to afford other hookers and blow ;)

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#24

Post by gph »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #7

> The aim was to see if a guaranteed safety net would help people find jobs I'm confused, was that ever the expected goal of basic income?

Never a central tenet, but I've seen/heard some conjecture around UBI that it would help lift people out of the poverty trap, and this could help them find a path to fulfillment that for many might lead to a fulfilling job/career that's done as much for passion as profit.

It's not something I've heard strongly voiced or considered, certainly surprised to see it defined as the aim of UBI as this article puts it. But then again there's a million definitions of UBI out there right now.

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#25

Post by scarecrowbob »

Simulacra wrote: post #5

I think it's human nature to do a little as possible for the most reward. If someone is giving you money to literally do nothing, then you're likely going to do..nothing!

Is staying home and taking care of my kids doing nothing?

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#27

Post by SatvikBeri »

happytoexplain wrote: post #8
SatvikBeri wrote: post #4

So, basically the article says that unemployed people who received a basic income stipend of $685/month weren't any more likely to get jobs within 2 years than a control group who didn't. This doesn't seem very surprising to me – if anything, I would expect people on UBI to be less likely to get jobs, and this study seems like evidence against that.

I'm confused - you expect people on UBI to be less likely to get jobs, the article is evidence against that, and you're not surprised?

The article acts as though UBI should have caused people to get more jobs, and is a failure because they didn't.

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#29

Post by vbuwivbiu »

Simulacra wrote: post #5

I think it's human nature to do a little as possible for the most reward. If someone is giving you money to literally do nothing, then you're likely going to do..nothing!

except in reality people max themselves out and would continue to do so without the requirement to work - it's human nature to work as hard as possible for what one loves

Re: Basic income in Finland did not lead to finding work, researchers said

#30

Post by izzydata »

I thought the idea was to reduce pointless busy work and increase actual productive work for people that wanted to. The overall outcome being increased net productivity. I have no idea how you would measure that though as I imagine there would be less people interested in working overall.
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