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German for Programmers

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Re: German for Programmers

#181

Post by usrusr »

glastra wrote: post #113
lordnacho wrote: post #34

> The genders of individual nouns and the grammatical rules to decline articles and adjectives using those genders constitute a shared set of rules that the sender and receiver both know. It may not approach the Shannon limit, but German gendered nouns form a weird, organically developed forward error correcting code. This might be a convoluted example, but imagine trying to hear the difference between Rat and Rad ov…

A funny thing is that, in Castilian (Spanish spoken in Spain), the word "Internet" is always used without an article. We do assign the masculine gender to it when we attach adjectives to it, but never an article, which actually is a bit strange once you think about it. For example, "the Internet is full of X" is "Internet está lleno de X". To refer to a slow Internet connection, we would say "Internet va lento" or "m…

That seems enviably correct to me! "The Internet" usually refers more to a state of connectedness than to a specific entity consisting of connected computers. "Internet" can be slow or broken while the entirety of "el Internet" is doing just fine. In the languages I use you would always say "the internet" or "das Internet" is slow or broken or full of lies, even though the inclusion of the article does make it technically refer to the whole thing and you are clearly just talking about your own tiny little corner.

Re: German for Programmers

#182

Post by Nasrudith »

jacobush wrote: post #166
ascar wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also shifts with time. 30 years back the prejudice would have been flipped. As a white immigrant you would've probably been a low educated russian or polish worker, while with a taint you would've been Italian and much more respected. It's the general bad practice of putting individuals into larger groups with a stigma based on visual appearance. I think a lot of the resentment about bad German skills in my genera…

Some comes from the attitude of creating the group "2nd generation immigrants". In the US, that's basically not a thing. There are reasons of course, just sayin'.

Yeah birthright citizenship for one. Complaining that people who don't belong to a group don't identify with it and act like it is just stupid.

Doing so while not allowing them is cruel and stupid like punching someone for having a black eye and justifying it with their face looking weird.

Re: German for Programmers

#183

Post by talkingtab »

jlangenauer wrote: post #65

Having lived in Germany for 3 years now, and managed to speak German to a half-decent level (B1/B2), I offer the following observations. 1. The genders don't matter nearly as much as non-speakers think they do. If you talk to your bank, it doesn't matter if you ask about "der Konto", "die Konto" or "das Konto" (the last is actually correct), you will be able to communicate quite fine. Unlike French, there are very fe…

Is there a German word for the delight one experiences when a person uses the wrong word unknowingly (as I often do) and creates a new and wonderful concept? As in "map German propositions to English ones." I do not mean to be snarky, I mispell thinks constantly.

Re: German for Programmers

#184

Post by WA »

donjoe wrote: post #107
jlangenauer wrote: post #65

Having lived in Germany for 3 years now, and managed to speak German to a half-decent level (B1/B2), I offer the following observations. 1. The genders don't matter nearly as much as non-speakers think they do. If you talk to your bank, it doesn't matter if you ask about "der Konto", "die Konto" or "das Konto" (the last is actually correct), you will be able to communicate quite fine. Unlike French, there are very fe…

Well, sometimes Germans themselves are not quite sure about which article to use. It differs from north to south, from east to west and depends a lot on the dialect you're used to. An (Upper-)Bavarian would for example never say "die Butter". It is and will always be "der Butter". Same with "der Radio" in the South and "das Radio" for the rest of the country. Another funny thing I stumble upon every time Oktoberfest…

It gets worse with new words. Sometimes, there's a "correct" way of deriving the article I guess, but it sounds weird.

For example Blog. Correct would be "das Blog" (because "das Web-Log" = "das Logbuch" or "das Protokoll"), but "der Blog" sounds nicer imho. Some people say "das Laptop" although this sounds off for most and "der Laptop" is correct.

For other words, the article can change over time. Correct is "das Virus", because it's a Latin word and the ending -us comes with "das". But most people say (and the media writes) "der Virus".

Re: German for Programmers

#185

Post by usrusr »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #117
usrusr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say it exactly as you wrote, thankfully we have stopped translating that kind of term. Translations are only found at the extreme edges of the formality spectrum: in very formal writing, you use whatever is defined in the glossary of your organisation, and informal chitchat might occasionally be spiced up with ridiculous translations spontaneously made up on the spot. Even when I was a child, with no or very litt…

> You say it exactly as you wrote ...except that you still need to memorize or deduce the correct articles. Der Layer (ends in -er); die VM (die (virtuelle) Maschine); die Postgres-Database (die (Daten-)Bank); das Upgrade (probably because it's a verb turned into a noun, like das Aktualisieren?), etc. Fun! For some reason, many recent open source tools are still translated into German word by word. I guess the volunt…

"Das Layer", for me, 100%. But I can't give a reason.

Translations are difficult. If you are talking or writing you just use the first word that comes to mind, but when you are translating it takes active effort to decide on where to stop. On top of that, with open source translations there is always a bit of an assumption (and self-fulfilling prophecy) that power users would stick to the original English and when you think of an audience that does not know the technical terms it feels like helping them if you forcibly translate (which might be a mistake).

Re: German for Programmers

#186

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #167
jlangenauer wrote: post #65

Having lived in Germany for 3 years now, and managed to speak German to a half-decent level (B1/B2), I offer the following observations. 1. The genders don't matter nearly as much as non-speakers think they do. If you talk to your bank, it doesn't matter if you ask about "der Konto", "die Konto" or "das Konto" (the last is actually correct), you will be able to communicate quite fine. Unlike French, there are very fe…

> das Mitleid - "mit" means with, and "leid" would be related to the verb "leiden", to suffer. So you'd have "with-suffering", which makes it possible to guess the actual meaning - "compassion" That is just the same in English. Although you probably need to remember a bit more etymology, and some Latin doesn't hurt, "compassion" is just the same. "com" means with and "passion" in this context also means suffering.

> some Latin doesn't hurt, "compassion" is just the same. "com" means with

English uses this "second register" to make words, which makes it harder. German and Dutch do not, they use the regular vocabulary. The classic example is scientific terms like "Carbon", ""hydrogen": In German "Kohlenstoff" and "Wasserstoff". It helps if you realise that "stoff" is stuff, material; "Kohle" is coal and "wasser" is water.

Re: German for Programmers

#187

Post by adimitrov »

onli wrote: post #136
ascar wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough I always use "der Log" and not das. Though Das is usually the go to gender for foreign words that don't feel German enough, when you say them in a German sentence. In my experience that feeling largely depends on your expectation to be understood. I.e. mixing German with tech terms with a tech coworker is far more acceptable than mixing it with a coworker from accounting.

> Funny enough I always use "der Log" and not das. People are nice to you if they don't correct that :) Das Log is pretty universal a neutrum. "Ich schreib das mal ins Log", if you are used to der Log that must be an individual mistake or a dialect far removed from Hochdeutsch.

I use der Log, as do most of my colleagues. I also say "der Blog." Duden seems to agree with you, but I'm still not convinced. It's probably a regional difference.

Re: German for Programmers

#188

Post by WA »

kara_jade wrote: post #31

The super-complicated LIFO example is, unfortunately, a contrived example: “Ich stimme dem Maler, der die Meinung, dass Rot keine Farbe ist, vertritt, zu.” This sentence can be rewritten in German just as in the English translation: “Ich stimme dem Maler zu, der die Meinung vertritt, dass Rot keine Farbe ist.”

You're right and in some sentences, the entire meaning of the sentence only makes sense when you read the last word. Thus, a style guide for writing recommends to restructure the sentence as much as possible.

Unfortunately, especially in academic writing, some people want to appear smart and make their sentences super complicated on purpose. Fortunately, I'm not a student anymore and I stopped reading bullshit where the author doesn't respect the reader.

Re: German for Programmers

#189

Post by nkrisc »

jacobush wrote: post #164
pluma wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true but I'd say it's less about appearing lowly educated than about reinforcing your foreign-ness. A lot of Germans are to varying degrees prejudiced against foreigners, especially if you're brown or can be read as Turkish/Arabic or Eastern European. If you pass as white European you're more likely to be read as educated but still learning the language whereas otherwise your language problems are more likely…

East of France?

Maybe they meant Spain and Portugal?

Re: German for Programmers

#190

Post by kieuk »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #167
jlangenauer wrote: post #65

Having lived in Germany for 3 years now, and managed to speak German to a half-decent level (B1/B2), I offer the following observations. 1. The genders don't matter nearly as much as non-speakers think they do. If you talk to your bank, it doesn't matter if you ask about "der Konto", "die Konto" or "das Konto" (the last is actually correct), you will be able to communicate quite fine. Unlike French, there are very fe…

> das Mitleid - "mit" means with, and "leid" would be related to the verb "leiden", to suffer. So you'd have "with-suffering", which makes it possible to guess the actual meaning - "compassion" That is just the same in English. Although you probably need to remember a bit more etymology, and some Latin doesn't hurt, "compassion" is just the same. "com" means with and "passion" in this context also means suffering.

That's also the composition of 'sympathy', just that's Greek instead of Latin.
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