A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future • Hacker News Board

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#191

Post by youngtaff » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:14 AM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #95

Xixi wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On point 4: four engines have some disadvantages, but in terms of fuel consumption the difference is within 1% or 2% of two engines. The issue has more to do with maintenance, and reliability: with two extra engines, you are that much more likely to have one going tech and be grounded. EDIT: interesting link, that contradicts some of what I say above: https://leehamnews.com/2015/12/11/bjorns-corner-twins-or-qua...

Also, aircraft are certified to be able to complete take-off with one engine failure. Thus, twin engines have to have basically 100% reserve, while the 4 engines only need to have 33% reserve (to make up for one engine failing).

Norwegian currently have a 787 stuck in Iran with a broken engine, so I'm not sure they can take off with only one engine

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#192

Post by owenversteeg » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:17 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #166

duxup wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to have a slide....

It does! You hike up to visit the inside of the plane and go out on the wing, then ride a burlap sack back down. It’s a super fun museum, the only counterpart I’ve seen here in the states is the Henry Ford Museum outside Detroit.

Oh that sounds great. Apparently they also have a real Buran prototype, for anyone that's still not convinced.

I'm surprised that Lufthansa would just donate them such a complete looking aircraft though. Apparently the 747-200 was still in production until 1991, and Lufthansa donated it in early 2002. They were in regular passenger use until 2016 and there are still a handful being used as cargo jets - and Lufthansa had an air cargo subsidiary that used 747-200s at the time.

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#193

Post by PunchTornado » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:37 AM UTC

danepowell wrote: post #123

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

I totally understand why big aircraft (A380, 747, etc) are disappearing commercially but I will miss them. Flying in a larger aircraft makes one feel less like cargo, in particularly for airlines that offer places to stretch your legs (e.g. "bar" seating, showers, staircases, etc). I was always kind of secretly hoping large blimps would return. And we'd get to choose between 7 hours in a tiny metal tube with the seat…

I love the A380 as an aerospace enthusiast, but absolutely despise it as a passenger. In my experience (with Lufthansa), the boarding process is chaotic and takes forever, the seat pitch is minimal in economy, and never have I felt more like cattle than when sharing the situation with 700 other passengers. I'm curious how your experience as a passenger sounds so different from mine.

did you fly first class in an A380? it's amazing

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#194

Post by youngtaff » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:41 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #138

Theodores wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With one flying over my house right now I don't believe they are heading for the boneyard any time soon. For London Heathrow there is no better plane for the operator with not that many slots. Nowadays there are budget airlines using budget airports with very long taxi rides to somewhere useful. You can't argue with price. Yet right now we are in an age of cheap oil that facilitates this. Had we not had the taps full…

> part of England that was changed to be Wales so that an EU development grant could be obtained. Is that true? I see the border was last changed in 1972, but that's well before the EU and regional development funding was thought about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England%E2%80%93Wales_border

I can't find any evidence to back the assertion that the border was moved - an the factory is a reasonable distance from it

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#195

Post by youngtaff » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:44 AM UTC

diebeforei485 wrote: post #12

In hindsight, it's telling that even the biggest A380 operator didn't actually buy the plane themselves - they leased it through various special-purpose vehicles which were then sliced into various investment portfolios. Goldman Sachs is one investment bank that set up some of the structures for this - https://www.goldmansachs.com/s/2012annual/assets/downloads/G...

It's pretty common for airlines to lease planes rather than buy them themselves

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#196

Post by steedsofwar » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

danepowell wrote: post #123

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

I totally understand why big aircraft (A380, 747, etc) are disappearing commercially but I will miss them. Flying in a larger aircraft makes one feel less like cargo, in particularly for airlines that offer places to stretch your legs (e.g. "bar" seating, showers, staircases, etc). I was always kind of secretly hoping large blimps would return. And we'd get to choose between 7 hours in a tiny metal tube with the seat…

I love the A380 as an aerospace enthusiast, but absolutely despise it as a passenger. In my experience (with Lufthansa), the boarding process is chaotic and takes forever, the seat pitch is minimal in economy, and never have I felt more like cattle than when sharing the situation with 700 other passengers. I'm curious how your experience as a passenger sounds so different from mine.

I have a similar view on the A380, but I love being a passenger on them more than any other plane. The extra leg room is what wins over for me and as I fly Emirates the in flight entertainment is brilliant.

For me it’s a shame we are seeing a decline of these planes. I loathe to think the industry is going to go back to less leg room, more seats and feeling like cattle.

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#197

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

consp wrote: post #184

distant_hat wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've flown the A380 with Emirates a bunch of times in economy and it was quite nice. Much more quieter and a lot more space. They also gave bassinet seats for my infant which made a huge difference on a 10 hour flight.

That is my experience too. With emirates I can actually sit in an economy seat in a 380 without destroying my knees (looking at you Lufthansa, you can do it too in you 380s). A trip to Tokyo recently I did the first stretch in a 380 and the second in a 777 and the 777 was horrible compared to the 380: less seat space (I think about 1 to a bit less than 2 inches), less overall room. Though still more room than most ai…

Indeed, my only A380 experience was with Emirates and I assumed that they were all set up in the same way. I tend to fly Virgin Atlantic long haul and will at least upgrade to their premium (business) class, but economy on an Emirates A380 is comparable IME and to be honest I doubt I'd waste money paying to upgrade if I flew with them again.

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#198

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:51 AM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #186

chrisper wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For long hauls I'd always recommend to upgrade to Premium Economy. It's not quite first class, but it's much better than regular economy imho.

Really? I've flown both Premium Economy and Economy (>10 flights each I believe) for Delta, as well as both on a few other carriers, and I've never noticed a difference that was worth more than $20 in my mind. (Most of these were long-haul.) If it's free or very cheap, then sure, but it's such a small benefit that I've been on flights where I didn't even notice I was in Premium Economy until I stood up at the end of…

"Premium Economy" seems to be a Virgin Atlantic thing and is basically their business class. It includes much larger seats, premium in-flight entertainment, nicer toilets, and a much better food and drink selection. The section on the aircraft I've flown on is also much smaller (50 seats?) and curtained off from the unwashed masses.

Agreed that a lot of airlines off an "economy plus" which is basically slightly faster boarding and slightly more legroom and that this isn't worth paying the extra for.

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#199

Post by owenversteeg » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

arnon wrote: post #189

owenversteeg wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I've flown both Premium Economy and Economy (>10 flights each I believe) for Delta, as well as both on a few other carriers, and I've never noticed a difference that was worth more than $20 in my mind. (Most of these were long-haul.) If it's free or very cheap, then sure, but it's such a small benefit that I've been on flights where I didn't even notice I was in Premium Economy until I stood up at the end of…

In American carriers, "Economy Plus" or similar is just a little bit of more leg room, in the standard 3-4-3 or 3-3-3 configuration. For companies like Lufthansa, SAS and others - premium economy is closer to what Business Class used to be 20 years ago. You get an amenity kit, better food selection with real cutlery, nicer pillow and duvet, and a much nicer seat - usually in a 2-2-2 configuration.

Huh! I've flown Premium Economy with a few European carriers (Air France, KLM and two others I believe?) and didn't notice anything different. Food on KLM/AF is always good though. I've never flown Premium Economy in Lufthansa or SAS (as far as I can remember.) And I've never seen a duvet on a plane even in first class! Are there actually airlines with duvets or just nicer quality blankets?

The differences I've mainly noticed in premium economy are: electrical outlets, nicer in-flight entertainment, more legroom/better reclining, nicer head cushion, closer to the front (if that's a benefit) and that's about it. Amusingly, I've found on Delta the "premium economy" section occasionally extends slightly outside, e.x. the electrical outlets and better in-flight entertainment (but not the legroom) aren't only for premium economy but also 2 or 3 rows of normal seats beyond. Which is a little strange, since I would think Delta would use the opportunity to present that as an upgrade (paid, or free as a goodwill gesture) but I've only ever seen them labeled and sold as normal seats.

Re: A380 cancellations by Qantas raise new questions about the superjumbo's future

#200

Post by EdwardDiego » Fri, Feb 08, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

danepowell wrote: post #123

Someone1234 wrote: post #3

I totally understand why big aircraft (A380, 747, etc) are disappearing commercially but I will miss them. Flying in a larger aircraft makes one feel less like cargo, in particularly for airlines that offer places to stretch your legs (e.g. "bar" seating, showers, staircases, etc). I was always kind of secretly hoping large blimps would return. And we'd get to choose between 7 hours in a tiny metal tube with the seat…

I love the A380 as an aerospace enthusiast, but absolutely despise it as a passenger. In my experience (with Lufthansa), the boarding process is chaotic and takes forever, the seat pitch is minimal in economy, and never have I felt more like cattle than when sharing the situation with 700 other passengers. I'm curious how your experience as a passenger sounds so different from mine.

To be fair though, according to Seatguru.com, Lufthansa are the most 'efficient' in terms of seating - that is, you will have the least leg-room etc. on a Lufthansa flight. The precise airplane model doesn't matter, they always have the least space for a passenger.

Bonus for when you press the steward summons button and an angry balding German steward (who nonetheless has a ponytail) turns up half an hour later and demands to know what you want, and when you say "water, please", asks angrily "You vant vasser?!" like you just asked to bone his Mum.