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Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

computing.co.uk

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Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#81

Post by rorykoehler »

snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

One interesting idea I came across lately is to abandon taxes altogether and just print money as necessary. The inflation is the tax. This allows companies and people to pursue revenue without limit whilst also allowing for all public good/needs to be met. This approach coupled with a basic income could be a very powerful enabler. The difficulty will be in learning what the limits to and pitfalls of this system are as we don't have any practical experience implementing it.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#82

Post by rorykoehler »

sidibe wrote: post #13

The EU allows a couple of its countries to act as tax havens. Ireland and the Netherlands are probably pretty pleased that EU citizens seem to direct all their outrage at the companies that do the obvious thing instead of at their tax laws.

It's not really that straight forward. With the Euro another dimension is thrown into the mix due to the effects of the extreme export competitiveness disparities that exist within the single monetary areas.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#83

Post by qqn »

"Create an account" wall to read more than the headline, nice. Shimmying around this led me to https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/ansfle/google_n..., where the commenting just made my day:

- "So I get what the EU is trying to do with these regulations, but this basically just means Google is paying to break the law at this point."

- "Any law punishable only by fine is legal for the rich."

- "At least it can deduct the fines off its taxable income."

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#84

Post by jplayer01 »

YayamiOmate wrote: post #77
jplayer01 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fines exist to dissuade illegal behavior This is just your preferred interpretation. Fines also exist to reduce or disincentivize unwanted behavior.

How is that different? The behaviour is made illegal, precisely because it's unwanted... that's pretty much the definition. I don't think there is another source of law in healthy cases/systems.

Not all unwanted behaviors are illegal. Some countries tax soda in order to reduce soda consumption. A behavior is not unwanted iff it's illegal. A behavior is illegal iff it's unwanted. It's not necessary for a behavior to be illegal in order to be unwanted. Illegal behavior is just a subset of the other.

But aside from that, and in this case, I feel the barriers to making it illegal are far higher than fining companies in other ways.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#85

Post by jplayer01 »

pkaye wrote: post #39
simion314 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is complicated, imagine EU putting some american CEO in prison.

Are they going to put the former Volkswagen CEO in prison for the emissions scandal? Because the US would like to.

Actually, if Winterkorn is found guilty, he could be thrown into jail for up to 25 years, and he would be personally financially liable to the tune of his entire fortune. So, yeah, he's not getting off easy like most executives do in the US. Let's see the US even try to do the same thing to bank executives. Oh wait, democrats declined to pursue any of them and were happy with a single low-level scapegoat.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#87

Post by jannes »

jdoliner wrote: post #43
stormbrew wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you get your buddy to make you a low-ball offer on your property that you'll definitely refuse so you can pay less taxes. Then you do the same for them. Meanwhile, that person you don't like? Make a ridiculous offer on their property to either force them to move or suddenly have to pay absurd taxes.

You'd value the property based on the max offer the person had gotten, not the minimum. This gives the person you don't like the option to take your ridiculous offer and stick you with the absurd taxes. Sure they have to move, but they now have the resources to do it.

How many people would accept a new tax system where rich people can arbitrarily force poorer people to move?

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#88

Post by mikhailfranco »

snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

Just make the state a passive non-voting shareholder, with a stake of, say, 10%. It receives a dividend, just like any other shareholder, so interests are exactly aligned, and there's nothing management can do to avoid paying the state, while also paying shareholders.

The state would benefit from share price rises by existing capital gains tax paid by the individual shareholders when they realize the equity gain. This would prevent avoidance of dividends in favor of share price appreciation through buybacks.

It leaves the problem of cross-border flows, such as fradulent notional payments for intangible assets, such as licensing, which would still be able to move profits and dividends to other countries.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#89

Post by dorgo »

rorykoehler wrote: post #81
snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

One interesting idea I came across lately is to abandon taxes altogether and just print money as necessary. The inflation is the tax. This allows companies and people to pursue revenue without limit whilst also allowing for all public good/needs to be met. This approach coupled with a basic income could be a very powerful enabler. The difficulty will be in learning what the limits to and pitfalls of this system are a…

Just buy gold/Bitcoin/anything to dodge inflation and taxes?

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#90

Post by avmich »

jannes wrote: post #87
jdoliner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd value the property based on the max offer the person had gotten, not the minimum. This gives the person you don't like the option to take your ridiculous offer and stick you with the absurd taxes. Sure they have to move, but they now have the resources to do it.

How many people would accept a new tax system where rich people can arbitrarily force poorer people to move?

Do you mean the cost of the move will be the issue?
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