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Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

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Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#41

You can buy and sell almost anything under capitalism. You can buy or sell property. You can buy or sell pieces of a company (stocks). You can buy or sell human labor. And the way that businesses make money is by essentially arbitraging some market, for example by buying something in one place and selling it somewhere where it is more expensive, or by buying labor and selling the products of that labor at a profit. B…

Thank you - this is a concise definition and gives a working pov that can be widely applied - do I own my personal data, can I sell it? Its an easy one to think around

As an intellectual framework this is a great jumping off point.

I hope you don't mind if I suggest you may not have originally thought of it - where can I read more?

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#42

You can buy and sell almost anything under capitalism. You can buy or sell property. You can buy or sell pieces of a company (stocks). You can buy or sell human labor. And the way that businesses make money is by essentially arbitraging some market, for example by buying something in one place and selling it somewhere where it is more expensive, or by buying labor and selling the products of that labor at a profit. B…

What socialism system are you talking about? Just name one socialist country that applies your ideal scenarios. IMHO this system only exist in your mind, it is not real.

Countries that people say are Socialist like those in the north of Europe, are really capitalistic societies.

I have known plenty of real socialist countries in the world, and they only share misery. In those socialist countries, like Venezuela or Cuba, the old Soviet World, differences between those in power and those that are not are enormous, bigger than in any capitalist system.

In Venezuela for example, those in power made deals selling the gold of the country, the oil and until recently, had access to favorable exchange of currency that they sold in the black market making a tremendous profit.

In Cuba people earn a maximum by law of something like 30 dollars/month. But people in charge sells access to country resources like permission to place a Hotel or a factory and make millions. All the heroes of revolution living in Mansions in front of the sea while normal people do not have permission to change a broken electrical switch in their houses or feeding the cow in front of their house, starbing.

Cooperatives, like Mondragón in Spain or kibbutz in Israel have their own set of problems. If you pay everybody the same, the best people just get out soon.

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#43
post #34

You can buy and sell almost anything under capitalism. You can buy or sell property. You can buy or sell pieces of a company (stocks). You can buy or sell human labor. And the way that businesses make money is by essentially arbitraging some market, for example by buying something in one place and selling it somewhere where it is more expensive, or by buying labor and selling the products of that labor at a profit. B…

To me the concept of labor in socialism is outdated. Consider Facebook, do all the uses who generate the content and activity that gives Facebook its value count towards "labor" and therefore should participate in the rewards of that labor? If everything was still physical factories, staffed by humans, and creating physical widgets then I can at least understand the socialist view. However, in the current market labo…

>>> do all the uses who generate the content and activity that gives Facebook its value count towards "labor" and therefore should participate in the rewards of that labor?

yes.

I have contributed a small part of labor, but probably more importantly I have sold my Intellectual Property - my Personal data, to Facebook who then monetise it and give me no cut of the proceeds.

It is an interesting framework from fallingfrog. I like it

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#44
post #26

The title implies Capitalism is broken. It's not. Capitalism has provided more benefits to more people than any other economic system in history. American Capitalism has produced the telephone, the automobile, the personal computer, the cell phone, the internet, and made us one of the richest countries in the world. A better title would be, Tweaks that can make American Capitalism Better.

For a long time America has been by far the richest country in the world, without a credible second place (though maybe China is that now) And yet for decades the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Americans is lower than that of people in other, poorer developed countries. Why is that? What's the point in having the richest country if it doesn't have the best conditions for those living in it? Is it worthwhi…

> And yet for decades the quality of life of hundreds of millions of Americans is lower than that of people in other, poorer developed countries.

This statement is wildly ignorant or intentionally misleading, you are claiming that at the very least 2/3 of all americans have a quality of life worse than other poorer countries. this is simply a false unsubstantiated statement.

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#45
I agree with some of the points being made in this article, but there's definitely better resources on this topic.

The paper mentioned in the article, "Amazon's Antitrust Paradox", is very thorough and easy to read even for someone (like me) who doesn't have a background in economics.

The key point made in that paper is that modern antitrust legislation only looks at price when determining whether a monopoly is harming the consumer, and doesn't consider scale or the effects on the overall market and competition.

>This Note argues that the current framework in antitrust—specifically its pegging competition to “consumer welfare,” defined as short-term price effects—is unequipped to capture the architecture of market power in the modern economy. We cannot cognize the potential harms to competition posed by Amazon’s dominance if we measure competition primarily through price and output. Specifically, current doctrine underappreciates the risk of predatory pricing and how integration across distinct business lines may prove anticompetitive. These concerns are heightened in the context of online platforms for two reasons. First, the economics of platform markets create incentives for a company to pursue growth over profits, a strategy that investors have rewarded. Under these conditions, predatory pricing becomes highly rational—even as existing doctrine treats it as irrational and therefore implausible. Second, because online platforms serve as critical intermediaries, integrating across business lines positions these platforms to control the essential infrastructure on which their rivals depend. This dual role also enables a platform to exploit information collected on companies using its services to undermine them as competitors.

Even though I'm a software engineer, I'm skeptical of claims that technology can help fix social, economic, or environmental problems. I support green technology, but they're not a panacea. In articles pushing green tech and sustainable energy, there seems to be this implicit assumption that we can maintain our current standard of living in a "sustainable" way. Solar panels and electric cars aren't going to prevent climate catastrophe if only 5% of people can afford them. Rather than relying on individual consumers to make ethical choices (opting into living sustainably) we need drastic changes at a state-wide level (so that choosing not to be sustainable is opt-out).

>Income inequality can be solved by educating or retraining workers for the high-tech jobs of the future.

This statement doesn't make any sense. If you increase the number of software engineers, the average wage will decrease.

Edit: Forgot to mention that tech is absolutely automating away a large number of jobs.

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#46

Anti-trust isn’t equipped to deal with anything because it’s arbitrary and vague. “You’re too big because some bureaucrats said so” is not law. That’s not justice. It’s totalitarian. How can a company avoid breaking the law if they don’t know they’re breaking it?

I saw this argument in another HN post that I found very convincing. The current antitrust standard of "consumer welfare" isn't necessarily wrong, but in the current world of tech it is wrongly applied because "the consumer" has been misidentified.

As we like to say so often "if you're not the paying customer, you're the product." Then in the world of Facebook and Google, the customers are really the advertisers, who are forced to pay monopoly rates because there are no good alternatives. Even with Amazon the long term reduction in viable competitors is not a good thing for end consumers, and if you look at other areas (I'd consider an author a customer of a publishing house, and if Amazon rules all of book distribution it means authors are worse off).

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#47

Anti-trust isn’t equipped to deal with anything because it’s arbitrary and vague. “You’re too big because some bureaucrats said so” is not law. That’s not justice. It’s totalitarian. How can a company avoid breaking the law if they don’t know they’re breaking it?

It's like a law against harrassment...it requires human judgment. Some harassment is obvious. Some depend on perspective. Enforcing harassment laws can still be justice even though it is arbitrary and vague. Hell, if laws weren't arbitrary and vague depending on circumstance, we wouldn't need lawyers and courts!

[deleted]

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#48
post #9

It's not an issue of having good ideas. The issue is really about execution and consensus building. We need to stop propping up 'the choosen one' type leaders and we will see change. I want boring people elected ala Merkel. Starting all the way back from Clinton\Bush\Obama\Trump to AOC these leaders are the wrong fit to make change happen in polarized times. They are great for media rating but not much else. I want t…

As the other responder said, boring non-charismatic people do not get elected in the US for President. The Democrat Party has been trying this over and over and over, and losing easily-winnable elections as a result. The latest election with Hillary losing is the most visible example of this phenomenon: she had no charisma at all, and lost to someone who was extremely polarizing.

It doesn't work this way in other countries because they don't elect their executives. In Parliamentary systems, the Parliament chooses the executive, rather than that person being chosen in a popular election. So the executive only needs to be charismatic enough to win a seat in parliament, not so popular as to win a nationwide popular election for a single and critical post.

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#49

You can buy and sell almost anything under capitalism. You can buy or sell property. You can buy or sell pieces of a company (stocks). You can buy or sell human labor. And the way that businesses make money is by essentially arbitraging some market, for example by buying something in one place and selling it somewhere where it is more expensive, or by buying labor and selling the products of that labor at a profit. B…

Thank you - this is a concise definition and gives a working pov that can be widely applied - do I own my personal data, can I sell it? Its an easy one to think around As an intellectual framework this is a great jumping off point. I hope you don't mind if I suggest you may not have originally thought of it - where can I read more?

Haha, thanks- I gave it my own twist but really this line of thought dates all the way back to Karl Marx. But for an lighter, more up to date analysis you can start with Richard Wolff's youtube channel "Democracy at Work"- he's an economist specializing in socialist economics.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCK-6FjMu9OI8i0Fo6bkW0VA

Re: Seven Fixes for American Capitalism

#50

You can buy and sell almost anything under capitalism. You can buy or sell property. You can buy or sell pieces of a company (stocks). You can buy or sell human labor. And the way that businesses make money is by essentially arbitraging some market, for example by buying something in one place and selling it somewhere where it is more expensive, or by buying labor and selling the products of that labor at a profit. B…

What socialism system are you talking about? Just name one socialist country that applies your ideal scenarios. IMHO this system only exist in your mind, it is not real. Countries that people say are Socialist like those in the north of Europe, are really capitalistic societies. I have known plenty of real socialist countries in the world, and they only share misery. In those socialist countries, like Venezuela or Cu…

I am constantly surprised by the reaction to the word socialism.

I live in the UK, where the government takes 50% of GDP, and spends it mostly on communal activities - shared ownership. We share our resources so that the sick can get treated, our children educated, our air space protected from Russian invasion.

We are sharing most of our national resources, and handing them out according to principles of those who need, not those who have money.

Call it whatever you like but it smells like socialist utopia.

Now if 99% of the resources were allocated such, would the whole thing collapse? Would we be better off if only 25% of resources were shared?

I think the difference between vibrant capitalism and collpasing communism is the efficency vs fairness trade off

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