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What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

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Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#451

Post by mixmastamyk »

mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

Interesting, I used to be very bothered by computer CRT monitors set at 60hz refresh and bright backgrounds. I'd go into the Windows control panel (most often) and increase it as far as it would go at the given resolution.

Through trial and error I found that 72hz was acceptable/ok and 90hz and above was great. Other folks generally didn't notice, but sometimes could if I showed them to look sideways etc. This must explain why I've never knowingly been bothered by 120hz LED flicker, it is below my ability to consciously notice.

Curious, I took a look at several bulbs, with the mobile at 240fps trick described elsewhere. A new Feit dimmable, new Ecosmart non, a several year old Ikea, and a no-name CFL. All showed flicker except the CFL. All the LEDs flickered, but the amplitude was larger on the ecosmart. Feit and Ikea had a small amplitude.

Perhaps they are putting half the LEDs out of phase to get the smaller amplitude, or they should?

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#452

Post by chihuahua »

jandrese wrote: post #237
blattimwind wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expected life of incandescent bulbs follows power laws with pretty big exponents: w.r.t. intensity its to the third power, w.r.t. voltage to the sixteenth power. So if you e.g. put a 230 V bulb on 110 V power, it will be dim as hell, but boi will it last!

So what this is saying is that light bulb companies engineered their bulbs to need regular replacement and we could have had much much longer lifespans with somewhat dimmer bulbs?

But then the efficiency (light output per watt of power used) would be quite bad, so we'd be wasting enormous amounts of power.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#453

Post by electrum »

brlewis wrote: post #216
lotsofpulp wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A competing manufacturer can always offer a product that last longer and warranty it, and people might choose to purchase it depending on the price. However, as the article notes, people may not be interested in paying a premium for a product that lasts 10y instead of 5y or 20y instead of 10y, since the tech can change or maybe it’s susceptical to other kinds of degradation.

For bulbs that are really cheap, people won't keep their receipts and warranty information. I think it will be hard for bulbs to differentiate by warranty.

If you buy at Costco, you can return them at any time in the future without a receipt. The return desk will lookup past purchases using your membership card.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#454

Post by JohnBooty »

Arbalest wrote: post #370
ahartmetz wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaking a hand with fingers spread out somehow works to spot flicker. If the light source flickers, you see oddly sharp finger positions in the air. It's not the most sensitive or easy to interpret method.

I remember doing this with CRTs

I calculated the airspeed of a rubber band this way once! My coworker shot a rubber band in my direction. I noticed three “shadows” of the rubber band as it passed by the CRT.

The CRT was a 17” running at 60hz. The rubber band sailed past in the span of about 2 screen refreshes, so it traveled that distance in 2/60 of a second. Distance was easy to calculate by the Pythagorean theorem or by holding a ruler to the screen, I forget which.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#455

Post by voycey »

mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

Our WeWork has them in the kitchens - I feel like I'm drunk whenever I am in there!

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#456

Post by gsich »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #378
mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

LED flicker could prove harmful or fatal if you work with anything that rotates or reciprocates. The rotating / reciprocating mass may appear stationary at some RPM. Just a reminder to only ever use incandescent or halogen lights around machinery you can touch while in operation: drills, lathes, mills, slotting machines, etc.

such devices are usually not allowed in those cases. (speaking of DIN EN 12464-1)

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#457

Post by kuon »

I have another issue with LEDs, I am designing an indoor device that use solar panel for recharge, and if I put my current solar panel (IXYS panel) under a LED vs under an halogen light, which are both similar in light intensity "to the eyes", I have like 100 times less energy on my panel under the LED.

I just discovered that a few days ago because I was using a LED maglight to test my panel and realized I had incredibly small power output with it. Now I am building a small circuit to measure and datalog the power output of different solar panels under different type of artificial lights (vs having to use the multimeter + oscilloscope which is not very portal outside my labs).

If you designed solar powered device for indoor use and have heard of this issue, I'm very interested.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#458

Post by kuon »

mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

Yes, I also have the flickering issue with some LEDs, and I can confirm that (to my eye) the philips LEDs I bought do not flicker. I also have a few OSRAM LEDs that don't flicker.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#459

Post by petre »

manmal wrote: post #267
mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

I only buy Philips bulbs for this very reason, or from brands that advertise being flicker-free. With iphones, slow motion mode also makes the flicker very visible without the need to transfer to a PC. Visible light impulses influence brain wave patterns (e.g. [1]), and it might not be beneficial to look at pulsed light with a frequency that is not well researched. Same thing with screens, most LEDs are dimmed with p…

I had a small bag of Chinese position light LED T10 lamps for my car my dad had given me. I would change them every three to five months because the LEDs would burn out. Getting sick of sticking my hand in narrow spaces to replace the lamps, I ordered two Philips Xtreme Vision 4000K T10 LED lights. They've beeen running flawlessly more than a year now.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#460

Post by dombesz »

manmal wrote: post #267
mrb wrote: post #235

Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering. I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the…

I only buy Philips bulbs for this very reason, or from brands that advertise being flicker-free. With iphones, slow motion mode also makes the flicker very visible without the need to transfer to a PC. Visible light impulses influence brain wave patterns (e.g. [1]), and it might not be beneficial to look at pulsed light with a frequency that is not well researched. Same thing with screens, most LEDs are dimmed with p…

Very good points here, I would add that 99% of the monitors are also flickering when you dim their ligth. This is why i started using the iris[1] app on my laptop. Keeping the brightness at 100% in the hardware settings will eliminate the flicker, then iris dims the lights from your graphic card. I can work without eye oain thanks to this method. - [1] https://iristech.co
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