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Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

computing.co.uk

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Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#61

Post by notahacker »

writepub wrote: post #50
shaki-dora wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, VAT is collected by the vendor. But the entity actually taxed is the customer. That's why VAT is an explicit line item on any bill. Second, almost all customers of Google Ads are businesses, with the resultant right get refunds for any VAT paid. Third, because of [second], most customers likely take a shortcut: if you add your VAT registration number to your account, Google does not even charge VAT.

> First of all, VAT is collected by the vendor VAT is collected by the government. Just because VAT appears as a line item on a bill, doesn't mean the vendor gets to book that as revenues. > Second, almost all customers of Google Ads are businesses, with the resultant right get refunds for any VAT paid. You mean, the business itself might charge a VAT from it's customer, and deduct the VAT it pays to vendors as "cost…

VAT isn't refunded, but since Google's clients are typically directly deducting the VAT paid from their corporation tax bill and not many people buy ads for personal use, the net benefit of VAT paid on Google Ads to governments is pretty minimal.

The case for income taxes paid by Google employees is better, but then most of them would also be paying high income tax if working for businesses that didn't use elaborate schemes to repatriate their profits.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#62

Post by YetAnotherNick »

I really wonder what will happen if Google/Facebook becomes unprofitable in EU due to regulations? It's clear that these companies work on user data and will not gain enough data/users/money if it is paid, specially social networking sites. Will they block it like China for exactly the opposite reason?

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#64

Post by diffeomorphism »

beachy wrote: post #36
snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

You start out strongly, but then this: > Somebody appropriates for himself a valuable piece of land with oil deposits. He prevents others from utilizing that land. Let him pay for having that exclusive rights of use, since clearly the government is providing private property related services (police, courts and army to guarantee his property) for him that others (non-owners) are not getting. If by "appropriates for h…

Note that when you "buy" land this is quite limited. For instance anything that happens sufficiently below it (e.g. subway tunnels, mining) or above it (airplanes), you have no say in it.

Similarly a state could say, you license (not buy) land for construction/agriculture etc. use. This license does not include extracting oil, which requires a separate license. The land remains property of the state, but for specific uses (e.g. housing) you have a guarantee that you can keep the license for 100 years and/or can renew it under similar conditions. This is for example what China does: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_property_law

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#65

Post by diffeomorphism »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #56
nafey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land is extremely limited in supply. If there is one thing that should not be openly bought and sold in markets (apart from humans) it is land.

How do you recommend allocating it, then? Difficulty: without murdering millions of people to make it happen.

IIRC what some states do is that you can not buy or sell directly. Instead it goes seller -> state, state -> buyer. To a large extent the allocation is then still done by the market on the buyer's side, but the state has some leeway for overriding, e.g. highways, natural resources, environmental protection, affordable housing only, zoning.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#66

Post by writepub »

notahacker wrote: post #61
writepub wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all, VAT is collected by the vendor VAT is collected by the government. Just because VAT appears as a line item on a bill, doesn't mean the vendor gets to book that as revenues. > Second, almost all customers of Google Ads are businesses, with the resultant right get refunds for any VAT paid. You mean, the business itself might charge a VAT from it's customer, and deduct the VAT it pays to vendors as "cost…

VAT isn't refunded, but since Google's clients are typically directly deducting the VAT paid from their corporation tax bill and not many people buy ads for personal use, the net benefit of VAT paid on Google Ads to governments is pretty minimal. The case for income taxes paid by Google employees is better, but then most of them would also be paying high income tax if working for businesses that didn't use elaborate…

Unless actual numbers are cited, discounting government's VAT income from Google's operations is not useful. We need a number to understand whether or not Google's contribution to the coffers are actually lesser than the fines it pays.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#67

Post by notahacker »

writepub wrote: post #66
notahacker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAT isn't refunded, but since Google's clients are typically directly deducting the VAT paid from their corporation tax bill and not many people buy ads for personal use, the net benefit of VAT paid on Google Ads to governments is pretty minimal. The case for income taxes paid by Google employees is better, but then most of them would also be paying high income tax if working for businesses that didn't use elaborate…

Unless actual numbers are cited, discounting government's VAT income from Google's operations is not useful. We need a number to understand whether or not Google's contribution to the coffers are actually lesser than the fines it pays.

Unless actual numbers are cited, it is not useful to credit Google with paying taxes which (i) are actually paid by Google's customers if at all and (ii) are generally directly deducted from those customers' own tax obligations and thus generally net to zero.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#68

Post by tobylane »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #64
beachy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start out strongly, but then this: > Somebody appropriates for himself a valuable piece of land with oil deposits. He prevents others from utilizing that land. Let him pay for having that exclusive rights of use, since clearly the government is providing private property related services (police, courts and army to guarantee his property) for him that others (non-owners) are not getting. If by "appropriates for h…

Note that when you "buy" land this is quite limited. For instance anything that happens sufficiently below it (e.g. subway tunnels, mining) or above it (airplanes), you have no say in it. Similarly a state could say, you license (not buy) land for construction/agriculture etc. use. This license does not include extracting oil, which requires a separate license. The land remains property of the state, but for specific…

Is that reducing the personhood of companies? (I consider that a good goal.) Saying that you must be a company to drill oil, and companies can only buy leasehold, not freehold.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#69

Post by tobylane »

jdoliner wrote: post #35
snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

I completely agree, I would love to see a monopoly based tax system. I consider property ownership just a special case of a monopoly, since you have a monopoly on that plot of land. The one question you didn't broach here though is how you set the tax rate. Current systems do this on property by looking at the sale price, but property value can change, so they use an appraisal process. That's no good, it's expensive…

This gives no weight to subjective value, such as its sentimental because your grandparents are buried there.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#70

Post by manigandham »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #12

This is hardly surprising given Google's tendency to evade taxes and exploit loopholes in taxation of international corporations.

They do not evade taxes, that is illegal. They pay what is legally mandated.

Not using tax strategies when you are major corporation with millions of shareholders would not be in the interests of the company and it is silly to expect them to voluntarily pay more, especially for some subjective belief on what the "right" amount is.

If you would like them to pay more then change the law to make them do so.

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