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Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

computing.co.uk

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Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#51

Post by jplayer01 »

arctux wrote: post #23
jplayer01 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works for me. If Google is happy to avoid taxes however they can, we should be extracting as much out of them as we can in other ways, such as fines. Not sure why we should be content with them not giving a shit about anything but themselves. Companies like Google only act out of pure greed. They don't respond to "positive reinforcement" and "education". They know perfectly well how to pay more in taxes, it's the def…

No. Fines exist to dissuade illegal behavior. The loopholes that Google (and Apple, and many other multinationals) should be abolished, and any tax evasion should be prosecuted. Antitrust fines do not exist to punish tax avoidance. They exist to penalize companies who use their size to prevent competition and distort markets. I have many issues with Google's business practices, but punishing them is not worth throwin…

> Fines exist to dissuade illegal behavior

This is just your preferred interpretation. Fines also exist to reduce or disincentivize unwanted behavior.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#52

Post by microcolonel »

robin_reala wrote: post #45
microcolonel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my humble opinion, this has more to do with the tremendous, ever-growing cost of the EU and its member governments; as well as a lack of protective principles in their legal systems. These rulings seem to show them retroactively interpreting and applying laws which would be too vague to enforce in the U.S. The EU's courts seem so abusive and vague that there is virtually no way to avoid running afoul of them if yo…

I mean, your second sentence is not even remotely true. You’re implying that the chance of being sued by the EU is near 100% for every profitable business in the EU.

> You’re implying that the chance of being sued by the EU is near 100% for every profitable business in the EU.

I mean to say that you can be fully aware of a law, interpret it broadly, and comply with that broad interpretation to the fullest extent, and you still have a reasonably high chance of being liable for damages in a suit related to that law.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#53

Post by lkrubner »

snidane wrote: post #27

It clearly shows how the tax system based on taking a cut from profits is totally leaky and should be abandoned. It only results in endless cat and mouse game of tax consultants (the big 4) finding loopholes in such tax systems against governments trying to plug the holes, just with much smaller budget and efficiency than the tax-evasion consulting armies. There are other models of tax systems. Some are even not prod…

This is a production tax:

"For example land taxation proposed by single-tax movement"

Land is an input to production, so this would be a production tax.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#54

Post by robin_reala »

microcolonel wrote: post #52
robin_reala wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, your second sentence is not even remotely true. You’re implying that the chance of being sued by the EU is near 100% for every profitable business in the EU.

> You’re implying that the chance of being sued by the EU is near 100% for every profitable business in the EU. I mean to say that you can be fully aware of a law, interpret it broadly, and comply with that broad interpretation to the fullest extent, and you still have a reasonably high chance of being liable for damages in a suit related to that law.

It’s a reasonable assertion, but it’s not backed up by any figures that I can imagine.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#55

Post by hcnews »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #28
hcnews wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if Google paid more taxes than necessary (legal loopholes), there would be no fines (for bad privacy etc.)? That sounds wrong. I don't support the legal tax loopholes but don't think there should be much relation between legal taxes and fines for bad practices (unless ofcourse the bad practice is illegal tax evasion).

I was merely suggesting the "more fines than taxes" bar in this article was artificially low because of their artificially low tax rate. Note that I am fully in support of the EU's fines for both Google's antitrust violations and their privacy abuses, and agree that they should have no bearing on taxation.

This version of statement I can agree with (since its just facts). The original statement didn't read anything close to this imho :-)

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#56

Post by CamperBob2 »

nafey wrote: post #49
beachy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start out strongly, but then this: > Somebody appropriates for himself a valuable piece of land with oil deposits. He prevents others from utilizing that land. Let him pay for having that exclusive rights of use, since clearly the government is providing private property related services (police, courts and army to guarantee his property) for him that others (non-owners) are not getting. If by "appropriates for h…

Land is extremely limited in supply. If there is one thing that should not be openly bought and sold in markets (apart from humans) it is land.

How do you recommend allocating it, then?

Difficulty: without murdering millions of people to make it happen.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#57

Post by aboutruby »

sidibe wrote: post #13

The EU allows a couple of its countries to act as tax havens. Ireland and the Netherlands are probably pretty pleased that EU citizens seem to direct all their outrage at the companies that do the obvious thing instead of at their tax laws.

There will always be better countries to pay taxes in. So that even if one country "fixes" its laws, another country becomes the alternative.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#58

Post by bryanrasmussen »

diplocorp wrote: post #47
beachy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start out strongly, but then this: > Somebody appropriates for himself a valuable piece of land with oil deposits. He prevents others from utilizing that land. Let him pay for having that exclusive rights of use, since clearly the government is providing private property related services (police, courts and army to guarantee his property) for him that others (non-owners) are not getting. If by "appropriates for h…

How did the person he bought the land from acquire it?

Well probably they bought it to, but yeah if you go far enough back there is probably some shenanigans going on with the land much as when you pass money around in America sooner or later somebody gets cocaine on it.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#59

Post by unknownkadath »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #56
nafey wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land is extremely limited in supply. If there is one thing that should not be openly bought and sold in markets (apart from humans) it is land.

How do you recommend allocating it, then? Difficulty: without murdering millions of people to make it happen.

Well, they seem to do OK in Hawaii. Not perfect by any stretch, but it isn't gulags and cold borcht.

Re: Google now pays more money in EU fines than it pays in taxes

#60

Post by notahacker »

wallawe wrote: post #26
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #12

This is hardly surprising given Google's tendency to evade taxes and exploit loopholes in taxation of international corporations.

This refrain is so tiring. There exist tax laws. They follow laws and pay the taxes they are supposed to. You can dislike the tax laws on the books but to expect that a company is going to willingly pay more than the law requires is absurd.

It's not half as tiring as the insistence that companies like Google follow the law and pay the taxes they are supposed to even in cases where courts have specifically ruled that they haven't. You can accept that corporations aim for tax efficiency without pretending that creating imaginary entities to pay imaginary royalties to or pretending that sales of UK eyeballs to UK companies by UK-based commissioned sales reps were actually completed in Ireland is simply paying what the law requires rather than actively subverting the relevant law.
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