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There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

wired.com

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Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#61

Post by nixpulvis »

fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #57

Maybe with Bitcoin I have to trust the software a little bit, but at least if it turns out to be faulty, I can switch to another app. That's much harder to do with governments controlling fiat money. Or with banks. What is a person supposed to do, who is denied financial transactions by the established financial service providers (paypal, credit cards,...)? There have now been several cases where paypal and others ha…

Am I missing something, "switch to another app" in this context also means finding buyers for all your bitcoin and exchanging them for whatever your new coin-de-jour is.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#62

Post by stcredzero »

fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #57

Maybe with Bitcoin I have to trust the software a little bit, but at least if it turns out to be faulty, I can switch to another app. That's much harder to do with governments controlling fiat money. Or with banks. What is a person supposed to do, who is denied financial transactions by the established financial service providers (paypal, credit cards,...)? There have now been several cases where paypal and others ha…

That's much harder to do with governments controlling fiat money.

What about government supported fiat money implemented with blockchain? The best way to implement that would be to preserve as many of the attributes of blockchain as possible. So the government could take coins in their possession out of circulation, or change mining parameters to print more money. Perhaps they could even print money just by signing it. However, they would not be able to make money disappear out of other party's accounts.

And many complaints are not about things Bitcoin actually promises to do. It doesn't promise to make exchanges safe.

Is it really viable not to have safe exchanges?

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#63

Post by tcrow »

The author has demonstrated a very amateurish understanding and greatly conflated Bitcoin technology with blockchain technology in general, drawing the reader to make the same poor conclusions as the author.

Just a quick example

> "The second element is the consensus algorithm, which is a way to ensure all the copies of the ledger are the same. This is generally called mining;" - except that is only applicable for (proof of work POW) consensus and does not apply to proof of stake (POS) and delegated proof of stack (DPOS) which several of the top blockchain projects are currently using (even Ethereum is moving to POS). Both of which are far more environmentally friendly and use asset ownership (stake) as the mechanism for consensus, which is much more reliable (in a trust sense).

Gosh there is so much that is conflated here. The article can be completely deconstructed but I just don't have the time. It's unfortunate this is coming from Wired. Tsk. Tsk.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#64

Post by blotter_paper »

joe_the_user wrote: post #48
jondubois wrote: post #21

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Much of the value of a cryptocurrency can be attributed to the fact that it's difficult to coordinate a large number of people to agree on changes. Also, because most blockchains are public ledgers; it'…

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Not really. Just as an example, the only people who expect to verify encryption algorithms all on their own are those incompetent at it. The competent take the "best of breed", note what other experts s…

>fiat money markets are many times more transparent than bitcoin markets.

Absolutely not. USD is purposefully manipulated by an organization that doesn't want their decisions to be known too far in advance. If inflation is about to increase, only a small cabal is supposed to know before the official announcement. For a decision like this to be made in Bitcoin, it would take lengthy discussion to get enough nodes on board. Even segwit caused a fork, the old Bitcoin (BCH now) is still around. Inflation can't be manipulated by a central organization that makes secret plans in advance using special powers. Whether or not that's a desirable quality is up for debate, but to act like the USD market is more transparent is absurd.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#65

Post by muttled »

jondubois wrote: post #21

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Much of the value of a cryptocurrency can be attributed to the fact that it's difficult to coordinate a large number of people to agree on changes. Also, because most blockchains are public ledgers; it'…

When anyone will be able to launch their own cryptocurrency, we will have a chance to free ourselves from the coercive influences of debt, venture capital and corporations

That's the goal with my side project https://coinpress.cc

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#66

Post by mantenpanther »

verdverm wrote: post #60
Kiro wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hate it because you missed out on the gold rush. It's called jealousy. Simple as that. I hate it too for the same reason but at least I'm honest about it.

I h#$@ it and I didn't miss out. A month's salary turned into 16 months of freedom and a bit of money to start a non-crypto company. Reason being the ignorant hype, even greater inequality, and the support of criminals, terrorists, and bad actors built into the very nature of public blockchain. Private blockchain is a different story, but I see that more like a choice between SQL and NoSQL. Just need to wait a decade…

Why the emotional attachment to a "thing" that just is? Do you also hate gold? Maybe vegetables? Or Javascript?

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#67

Post by drugme »

tcrow wrote: post #63

The author has demonstrated a very amateurish understanding and greatly conflated Bitcoin technology with blockchain technology in general, drawing the reader to make the same poor conclusions as the author. Just a quick example > "The second element is the consensus algorithm, which is a way to ensure all the copies of the ledger are the same. This is generally called mining;" - except that is only applicable for (p…

I read the Bitcoin mentions as examples, but not conflations of the overall issues with blockchains.

Except that is only applicable for (proof of work POW) consensus and does not apply to proof of stake (POS) and delegated proof of stack (DPOS) which several of the top blockchain projects are currently using (even Ethereum is moving to POS)

The fact that while what you just said, in attempting to "clarify" the issue, might make sense to a technical practitioner -- but is sheer gobbledygook to a lay person -- lies at the heart of the disconnect between the Cult of the Blockchain, and the real human beings (and their needs) it purports to serve.

It's unfortunate this is coming from Wired.

It's written by one of the most respected analysts in the industry.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#68

Post by verdverm »

baby wrote: post #39
verdverm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Private blockchains are interesting because it causes separate business to share code and data formats. There is a better interface for integrating. Plus you still get the rule of law.

Good point. It also forces them to be accountable, and facilitates regulation from third parties. Something that should be welcomed when you look at how opaque banks are trying to be sometimes.

A really interesting part of this process in helping decision makers within companies that working together and sharing a ledger can actually improve the bottom line. I have a friend who does these types of deals for HyperLedger at IBM. It's even more challenging than The Challenger Sale, because it's multiple and requires coordination.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#69

Post by fdggdfsvscvsd »

nixpulvis wrote: post #61
fdggdfsvscvsd wrote: post #57

Maybe with Bitcoin I have to trust the software a little bit, but at least if it turns out to be faulty, I can switch to another app. That's much harder to do with governments controlling fiat money. Or with banks. What is a person supposed to do, who is denied financial transactions by the established financial service providers (paypal, credit cards,...)? There have now been several cases where paypal and others ha…

Am I missing something, "switch to another app" in this context also means finding buyers for all your bitcoin and exchanging them for whatever your new coin-de-jour is.

No another app is just another implementation for a wallet. That is what I meant by apps - in response to Schneier's argument that you have to trust the software anyway.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#70

Post by jondubois »

joe_the_user wrote: post #48
jondubois wrote: post #21

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Much of the value of a cryptocurrency can be attributed to the fact that it's difficult to coordinate a large number of people to agree on changes. Also, because most blockchains are public ledgers; it'…

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Not really. Just as an example, the only people who expect to verify encryption algorithms all on their own are those incompetent at it. The competent take the "best of breed", note what other experts s…

>> but fiat money markets are many times more transparent than bitcoin markets.

How so? When the Fed creates money out of nothing and engages in so-called 'open market operations':

- Who brokers these deals?

- Do they get a commission on those deals? What percentage?

- When the Fed buys bonds/debt from the government through those brokers, who gets their hands on the credit when the government spends it? Is it the same corporations who get all the big government contracts (e.g. Palantir, IBM, Oracle...)?

- What do the corporations who get all the big government contracts and subsidies do with that money? Stock buybacks? If so, isn't this the same as if the government just gave the money to corporate shareholders directly?

I don't think I've ever met someone who could answer these questions. Certainly less than 0.1% of the holders of the currency can so how can we say that it's transparent?

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