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What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

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Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#231

This is pretty annoying as I replaced every bulb in my house with LED under the assumption that they would last at least a decade. I didn't even think to check a powered-on time rating. Not that using incandescent bulbs is a good option anymore anyway.

Curious, have you noticed any sleep issues, after you've switched to LED?

I have not, but I turn off my lights when I go to bed.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#232

So, engineering lead of a (outdoor) led Luminaire manufacturer here. And our sales director used to work for one of the biggest Asian light bulb OEMs. Happy to answer specific technical questions out there that this article triggered.

How do you predict product lifetime?

For LEDs, LM-80 data is used to extrapolate lifetime data via the TM-21-11 methodology. Its not great, but it is what we have. If you read the standard, it has pretty good summary of the drawbacks of the current approach to lifetime extrapolation:

https://www.ies.org/product/projecting-long-term-lumen-maint...

But, in practice, other components generally fail before the LEDs have a (binary) failure.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#233
I bought a bunch of the Cree LED bulbs from HD when they first came out, and I've had probably 6-8 of them fail into what I call "disco strobe" mode.

Eventually I'll replace the rest of them as they fail with whatever cheap store brand LED bulbs I can get.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#234

So, engineering lead of a (outdoor) led Luminaire manufacturer here. And our sales director used to work for one of the biggest Asian light bulb OEMs. Happy to answer specific technical questions out there that this article triggered.

What percentage of your sales is in RVs vs homes?

0% We do outdoor lighting for industrial environments

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#235
Lifetime isn't even my #1 concern with LED bulbs. It's strobing/flickering.

I film all the LED bulbs I buy in slow motion at 240 fps with an Android phone, and play the movie back on a PC with mplayer using the dot(".") key to move frame by frame. Here is a shot I made comparing 2 brands of LED bulbs: https://youtu.be/QbenId_F2RQ (Edit: yeah you don't have to transfer to a PC, just playing back in slow motion on the phone will still show the effect quite well.)

It's amazing how I find this way that most (but not all!) of LED bulbs flicker with a strobe effect at 120 Hz (frames alternate between bright and dim) because they have crappy power supply designs that fail to smooth the A/C voltage. As a result they flash one time during the positive phase and one time during the negative phase of the 60 Hz A/C mains frequency.

I find this unacceptable. Although not too noticeable in normal conditions, a 120 Hz strobing light is definitely noticeable when your eyes move or track an object illuminated by the bulb.

In my experience, Philips lightbulbs are one of the few brands that don't have this flaw because they take care of converting AC to a stable DC voltage internally. In fact they are advertised as such: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CFRCGKC "COMFORTABLE LIGHT: Our products meet strict test criteria including flicker, strobe, glare and color rendition to ensure they meet EyeComfort requirements"

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#236
post #218

... so what happened to the 100k hour LED bulbs? It never answers the question. It has an anecdote about the author's own lamps that ran an estimated 15-20k hours with an advertised lifespan of 30k and have degraded to the point where they will replace them. That's n=1 and nowhere near 100k hours, or even 50k as the author mentions early-adopters will remember seeing advertised. The article contains a lot of info, bu…

as with many such articles, the title is rhetorical and not intended to be answered.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#237

I toured a house looking to buy, 20 years ago. The old lady owner said "The light bulb over the door is going with me! I've had it 20 years and counting." It was a weird antique-looking thing with lots of wires and stuff in the clear glass bulb. Dim as hell. But 20 years! They don't make them like they used to.

The expected life of incandescent bulbs follows power laws with pretty big exponents: w.r.t. intensity its to the third power, w.r.t. voltage to the sixteenth power. So if you e.g. put a 230 V bulb on 110 V power, it will be dim as hell, but boi will it last!

So what this is saying is that light bulb companies engineered their bulbs to need regular replacement and we could have had much much longer lifespans with somewhat dimmer bulbs?

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#238

So, engineering lead of a (outdoor) led Luminaire manufacturer here. And our sales director used to work for one of the biggest Asian light bulb OEMs. Happy to answer specific technical questions out there that this article triggered.

What planned obsolescence do you engineer in to your fittings, etc.?

None. Our industrial customers require minimum 5 year warranty at 12hrs on per day, 365 days per year. We work hard to make both the lighting producing and mechanical aspect of the luminaires last.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says more that customers overwhelmingly prefer cheap products. A 1962 washing machine was 184.95 [1] ($1523.97 today) and a 1959 model was $209.95 [2] ($1729.97 today); which are both more expensive than all but the highest end front loader currently at Best Buy. The vast majority of top loaders are in the $500-700 range, top loaders $800-1000. There simply isn't much market for $2000 machines that will last decad…

> The vast majority of top loaders are in the $500-700 range, top loaders $800-1000. There simply isn't much market for $2000 machines that will last decades. Those "high end" washing machines will also fail in the same time range that the low end ones will. There is a market for them, but it will remain unfulfilled because the manufacturers make more money in the short term with the low-reliability ones.

I've never seen a washing machine manufacturer put their money where their mouth is with a $2000 machine with a 20 year comprehensive warranty.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#240
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you always scan your Family Card i.e., if you agree to be tracked.

I mean in this case you literally want them to track your purchases so that you can return defective bulbs without keeping the receipts.

Sure, but not for any other purpose, and that's what GP means.

It's like GPS tracking: I track every trip I make with OsmAnd's tracking feature automatically when it starts routing. But I wouldn't trust Google Maps to do the same with their location history feature. Their usage of the data isn't limited to what's in my best interest, so I'll collect it myself.

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