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There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

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Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#21
If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you.

Much of the value of a cryptocurrency can be attributed to the fact that it's difficult to coordinate a large number of people to agree on changes. Also, because most blockchains are public ledgers; it's impossible to manipulate them behind the scenes without raising alarms.

On the other hand, fiat money is constantly being secretly manipulated. There is very little transparency and much of the new fiat money which flows into the system has to pass through big financial firms/gatekeepers who get their cut of the new money supply. Big finance firms have had many decades to figure out how to game the fiat system and there is no doubt that they've been successful at it.

Cryptocurrencies have the potential to greatly improve the financial system by making it simpler, fairer and more transparent. When anyone will be able to launch their own cryptocurrency, we will have a chance to free ourselves from the coercive influences of debt, venture capital and corporations.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of technological systems have non-reversible consequences. For instance hard drives and airplanes for example. Schneier is essentially identifying an inherent trade-off between trusting the correctness of a technological device vs trusting in an institution. This is a trade-off happens all over the place: 1. Many people don't encrypt their email (trust technology) and instead trust gmail and associated intellige…

Why public Bitcoin over a bank's own blockchain solution?

Does a bank's own blockchain require trusting that bank? If so then you probably don't need a blockchain since you already have assumed a trusted third party.

If you are aiming to reduce your institutional trust assumptions to me the question is why not use Bitcoin?

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#23
post #6

1. yes there is a trust flow when you join a network: * you need to trust the paper behind the consensus mechanism * you need to trust the people who have implemented the client, and trust them to maintain it * you need to trust the TLS connection you use when you download the client. Meaning the whole CA system * you need to trust your own machine, when running the client * you need to trust the first peers you conn…

I quite like technologies / ideas / concepts like Merkle-Trees, DHT's, P2P and have them on my CV. Those companies that know what they're doing engage me on these topics. When somebody talks about blockchain I usually leave the room though. When I was still on LinkedIn I made the mistake to have blockchain in addition to those mentioned above in my profile and got bombarded with ICO scams and people adding me with "blockchain" in their titles. (the type that used to do SEO or growth-hacking before but have no idea about anything). Removing blockchain from the list dramatically reduced these requests.

Although I can't say if it was just that or whether I simply exhausted the pool of those that harassed me by trolling them back. Here is some fun I had: I made an extra 400-600 every other month by emailing people who spammed me with ICO crap. They always first connected on LinkedIn then exported their data to mailchimp abusing the Mailchimp ToS (and back then upcoming GDPR too) I sent them a requests for immediate removal from their system and an invoice. This required a little research on my part on the type of spam e.g. by filtering for those in my legal jurisdiction and getting names of people involved in their scam ... The invoice was a modest fee just above €100,- to reimburse me for my time wasted. I also attached all smtp headers, accompanied by a strongly worded letter that it would be handed over to my lawyer if the money wasn't paid within 7 days. The invoice came from an EU based Ltd operating under the same jurisdiction (no point in going after companies weak EU jurisdictions with very long legal process, ... but France, Germany, Holland, etc worked well). Only 2 of the spammers didn't pay up immediately and they got referred to my lawyer which then ensured I got the money within a month and without further fights. It did cost me around ~30-40 mins in time spent (some considerably longer but this was on average) to prepare the invoice and do the actual research on the people behind the corp (little bit of social engineering with those that seemed to be faceless and dangle some investment did the trick). It wasn't really a way of earning money but I enjoyed the extra thrill and exposing these idiots. Good times and great fun to waste a little bit of my time with figuring out how they worked (or how big they were compared to how big they claimed their operation was on social media ...)

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#24
1) Schneier evidently doesn't understand alternative consensus algos to mining. That's OK; they're hard to understand. Even permissioned chains apparently hard to understand.

2) Schneier doesn't understand that some people choose to trust the cryptocurrency community more than the banking/government community. If he looked at the first block of bitcoin aka "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks" he'd understand why this seems reasonable to many.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#25
post #6

1. yes there is a trust flow when you join a network: * you need to trust the paper behind the consensus mechanism * you need to trust the people who have implemented the client, and trust them to maintain it * you need to trust the TLS connection you use when you download the client. Meaning the whole CA system * you need to trust your own machine, when running the client * you need to trust the first peers you conn…

One of the main points of the article is that the government and the legal system is an effective mechanism of trust. If you're worried someone will squelch on their end of the deal, you write up a contract and thereby get to sue them if they fail to do so. This is usually where the bitcoin adherents start referring to corruption and the ilk to explain why government can't be trusted. But Schneier has the rebuttal: w…

I think it's nice that people can make a choice. I can definitely see how people from different background, communities or countries might have more trust in a decentralized system.

Personally I put most of my money in my bank, because this is who I trust. I tend to trust European banks more than American banks as well because I've heard horror stories here of people being impersonated and banks refusing to refund such scams.

Ideally, if everyone's bank would work on a decentralized network (that works, is bug-free, scales, has high-throughput, etc.), banking throughout the world would be a simpler experience. Decentralized and centralized at the right places.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#26

If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you. Much of the value of a cryptocurrency can be attributed to the fact that it's difficult to coordinate a large number of people to agree on changes. Also, because most blockchains are public ledgers; it'…

"If you're a technical person, you don't need to trust Blockchain technology; you can verify that it works on your own. If you're not a technical person, you can find independent technical experts to verify it for you."

That holds for Proof-of-work based currencies... It seems like it's trickier than that for proof-of-stake, as these have to be trustful systems.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#27
post #8

I hate blockchain so much and I can’t even exactly say why. Not because of the technology itself. I care about it as much as any other technology. I think it’s because of the sleazy non-tech people that suddenly turned into “experts” raising money for their BC startup, people organizing meetups, becoming “consultants” and of course the whole crypto craze... I really wish it will die soon.

No need to be so passionate about it. It may not change the world but it's a very cool technology.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#28

1) Schneier evidently doesn't understand alternative consensus algos to mining. That's OK; they're hard to understand. Even permissioned chains apparently hard to understand. 2) Schneier doesn't understand that some people choose to trust the cryptocurrency community more than the banking/government community. If he looked at the first block of bitcoin aka "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout…

I think it's folly to assert that the only reason someone disagrees with you is that they "don't understand".

I hope you get a chance to see Schneier directly challenged on those topics.

Re: There's No Good Reason to Trust Blockchain Technology

#30
post #6

1. yes there is a trust flow when you join a network: * you need to trust the paper behind the consensus mechanism * you need to trust the people who have implemented the client, and trust them to maintain it * you need to trust the TLS connection you use when you download the client. Meaning the whole CA system * you need to trust your own machine, when running the client * you need to trust the first peers you conn…

I quite like technologies / ideas / concepts like Merkle-Trees, DHT's, P2P and have them on my CV. Those companies that know what they're doing engage me on these topics. When somebody talks about blockchain I usually leave the room though. When I was still on LinkedIn I made the mistake to have blockchain in addition to those mentioned above in my profile and got bombarded with ICO scams and people adding me with "b…

I think it's a big but easy mistake to make. There is a lot of noise and scams do represent a huge majority of the market right now.

But if you look underneath, you will see that the academic community has been at work and a lot of research about byzantine agreements is coming out. It's quite the exciting field actually if you can segregate the noise from the actual good stuff.

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