Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage • Hacker News Board

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#31

Post by SN76477 » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I am currently working under Grubhub, Doordash, Uber Eats and several other food delivery services.

None of them communicate, none of them tell you what is going on, none of them are controlling the conversation their employees are talking about on Facebook.

It is PR 101 to control the conversation... but every one of them fail at this when it comes to contractors.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#32

Post by paulgb » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #10

Just tip $0 in the app and tip in cash, just like Uber / Lyft

Speaking of Uber/Lyft, do we have any verification that they aren't doing this? I would expect them to take a 2-3% cut to cover the card processing cost but hope that the rest goes to the driver.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#33

Post by Judgmentality » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #11

jonknee wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? Who's to say someone didn't? All we know is they decided to steal tips, not that everyone thought it was a great idea.

I address that later in my comment... Is this a function of schooling? MBA programs? Corporatism?

I mean ultimately it's the executives that call the shots. I've seen people stand up to executives over things like this and then they get fired and it's business as usual.

Most people aren't willing to risk their jobs over screwing over gig workers, especially when you feel powerless to actually stop it from happening. I mean it's so socially acceptable we've even coined the term "gig economy"

Chances are the people that really feel strongly about these things just refuse to work for those companies in the first place.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#34

Post by nabnob » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #7

It's terrible, but really it fits what these businesses do fundamentally. They provide a service, and and push as much risk off of the copany and onto their contractors as possible. Slow sales? Contractor just doesn't get paid. Injury? Contractor's problem, he's gone, who is next? The idea that they'd dip into the pot further to ensure more money for the company isn't much different than the rest of the risk they put…

They're basically bypassing all hard-fought labor laws by using contractors.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#35

Post by callinyouin » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #7

It's terrible, but really it fits what these businesses do fundamentally. They provide a service, and and push as much risk off of the copany and onto their contractors as possible. Slow sales? Contractor just doesn't get paid. Injury? Contractor's problem, he's gone, who is next? The idea that they'd dip into the pot further to ensure more money for the company isn't much different than the rest of the risk they put…

I guess it "fits" with what they're already doing in the sense that it's mitigating risk for the company, but paying the driver pennies when they get a decent tip is on another level entirely. Nobody would ever expect that their tip would go to the company and not the driver, that's just not what a tip is for. A worker not getting paid when sales are slow or not being covered when there's an injury because they're contracted and not "real" employees are things people generally understand at this point AFAICT. I guess my point is that this is outside of what people generally understand about these types of jobs.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#36

Post by itronitron » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

giancarlostoro wrote: post #3

jonknee wrote: post #2

The kick of the plot here is to not tip on Instacart as you're just handing money to VCs. Or maybe give the driver cash?

> Or maybe give the driver cash? "Gross. Who carries cash anymore?" Future headline: Millenials are killing physical cash. Jokes aside (as a millennial) this is not something I usually have readily available. I try to keep all my transactions digital but I may take money out just for tipping purposes.

In that case I recommend that you go to your bank and make a cash withdrawal in the form of $2 bills. That way you can be cool when handing out cash tips.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#37

Post by desireco42 » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

I think they did. They got shot down.

I was at the meeting at payday lender when we discussed some ways how to extract maximum money from people who are delinquent. People do speak up, they get shot down.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#38

Post by rjpr » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #11

jonknee wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? Who's to say someone didn't? All we know is they decided to steal tips, not that everyone thought it was a great idea.

I address that later in my comment... Is this a function of schooling? MBA programs? Corporatism?

It's just greed, plain and simple. It doesn't have to be more complex than that.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#39

Post by irrational » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

skrowl wrote: post #10

Just tip $0 in the app and tip in cash, just like Uber / Lyft

What is this cash you speak of? I jest, but seriously, it has been more than a decade since I last had cash on me. I assume there is someway that I could get cash, but it has been so long I'm probably (okay, definitely) not going to go to the trouble. Saying I should tip them in cash is saying that I shouldn't tip them.

Re: Instacart and DoorDash’s Tip Policies Are Delivering Outrage

#40

Post by gdulli » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

crushcrashcrush wrote: post #4

This is a great example in my opinion of the apathy we need to combat as technologists. Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything? "This is wrong/greedy/will have blowback." No one voiced concerns? Or, more specifically, if they did, no one listened? They didn't think this would leak out, with all the hatred regarding wage stagnation, income inequality, corporate greed? A ma…

> Why did NO ONE in any meetings when designing this "feature" or process say anything?

Meetings are rarely open-ended forums for arbitrary ideas or feedback and more often venues for agreeing with and carrying out decisions that were already made.

Anyway, I think it's far from settled that the amount of "blowback" from decisions like these actually hurt a company in the typical case.