Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#271

Post by AlexTWithBeard » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

citilife wrote: post #96

chanandler_bong wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more.

Not siding one way or the other, that will definitely limit the amount of expertise that comes with a Congressman/Congresswoman. Think about it, it takes at least six months for us to learn our jobs, they have to learn about hundreds of things ongoing in the government before they can make informed decisions. You then even rely more on lobbyists (or "experts") who at least generally know what they are talking about.…

I would argue the amount of expertise will go up with term limits: people who still have fresh memories of living outside the government bubble can actually make a lot of difference.

Moreover, it works the other way round as well. If, say, a teacher returns back to school after a term in state senate, the school will get access to invaluable wealth of knowledge of government internals.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#272

Post by kolbe » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #48

driverdan wrote: post #34

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

If I spend a few million to get some lawyers to work out a legal loophole that means I can murder someone and get away with it that wouldn't make it OK to actually do it. The same applies to tax avoidance. It might be legal but it's still wrong .

> The same applies to tax avoidance. It might be legal but it's still wrong.

Why? I'd argue that the US federal government is mostly immoral, and thus paying taxes is wrong. I only do it because I'm coerced into acting immorally from the threat of violence.

Comparing an action like murder, which is overwhelmingly believed to be immoral by religions and philosophers for millennia, to not overpaying US federal taxes is just silly.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#273

Post by arkades » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:21 PM UTC

theartfuldodger wrote: post #263

anth_anm wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If, as in the comment, they were carrying over losses, then there's nothing really objectionable I find that objectionable.

Why? Profits should follow arbitrary calendar years?

Because private citizens aren’t given the same affordances. The double standard is objectionable.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#274

Post by anticensor » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:22 PM UTC

aisengard wrote: post #61

MatekCopatek wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consumer just cares about the final price. They won't distinguish a price increase caused by taxes from one caused by corpo decisions. So assuming Netflix set their current prices optimally, they will be have to keep them and take the hit.

This is not really true. Sales tax is almost always a tack-on. Netflix can very easily advertise the same prices, and then when sales tax gets added on in your credit card statement they can just throw up their hands and say "the government makes us do this!". At least, that's how I'd see it - I'm paying Netflix X, and I'm paying the government Y. In no way does Netflix "eat" this cost. Could try and pass legislation…

> doozy to enforce

We have no problem enforcing the after-tax rule in VAT jurisdictions.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#275

Post by tomnipotent » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

hcnews wrote: post #223

AlexB138 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more. When you think there are simple answers to big problems it's generally because you don't actually understand the problem. How would you outlaw lobbyists? Setting aside the fact that it would be unconstitutional, do you think it should be illegal for you to air your grievances to elec…

> When you think there are simple answers to big problems it's generally because you don't actually understand the problem. Funny. Most complex problems have simple solutions. It takes lot more effort to do it, but the simple solutions tend to stick around the longest. This is based on 10 years of work exp in top tech companies :-) The only place when simple solutions don't work is when people have other vested inter…

> Most complex problems have simple solutions

This trope is both untrue and tired, as most cookie-cutter generalities are.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#276

Post by a-priori » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #261

SilasX wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is that simple (in the sense of the parent's post): you need to know the specifics of why they were paying no taxes. If, as in the comment, they were carrying over losses, then there's nothing really objectionable. You lost $10 million last year. You profited $10 million this year. Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. Did they get a specific exemption against the public interest that no one else got?…

>Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. The average worker isn't allowed to do that even when they lose money in a given year. Why is it so naturally assumed to be acceptable for a business to do it? Maybe the time is to just remove the loopholes in general from both business and personal income taxes.

I don't know about American taxes, but at least in Canada individuals can do this for capital gains / losses.

If you have investments that produce losses one year, you can carry those losses forward to cancel out capital gains in following years and reduce your tax payable.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#277

Post by ksdale » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:23 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #247

AlexB138 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The answer is to outlaw lobbyists, it would fix a lot of problems. That, and enact term limits for Congress. That will fix even more. When you think there are simple answers to big problems it's generally because you don't actually understand the problem. How would you outlaw lobbyists? Setting aside the fact that it would be unconstitutional, do you think it should be illegal for you to air your grievances to elec…

Just outlaw legislation written by lobbyists. If Congressmen have to do the actual work of writing, it would end up being simpler than the specially crafted 500pg bills nobody reads. It isn't too much to ask elected officials to do the work they signed up for.

Something that stuck with me from law school was that frequently when students raised the point that a law could be written far more simply, the professor would walk through the language they suggested and basically always the simplest formulation was absolutely shot through with loopholes, and as you close the obvious loopholes one by one, you end up with language that looks just like the statute as written, or you end up with a law that doesn’t accomplish the same thing.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#278

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

otachack wrote: post #46

driverdan wrote: post #34

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

It's not that simple. Companies lobby to keep, even coerce, laws that benefit them and allow these sorts of things to happen. What is the common person, or collection of persons, supposed to do when they are against that kind of force? I believe one way is to actually be involved in politics and get into the seats that govern and make the laws. But it's easier said than done.

Corporate taxes are value destructive. A company is either going to use that money to expand, creating a more jobs, paying employees more - who will pay taxes, or buy back stock or pay dividends.

The only real issue I have is the difference between capital gains taxes and income taxes.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#279

Post by rconti » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:24 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #34

Rather than being outraged at the headline, what are the actual details? Why were they able to pay no taxes? Was it due to carried losses or something like that? Anyone mad at a company for not pay taxes is misdirecting their anger. Companies follow the law. If you don't like the law elect different politicians. Don't get mad at companies that follow the law.

I also would like the details.

I think citing people "mad at the company" is a straw man. I'm sure someone is, but most people are angry at the system.

It's really quite simple. My marginal tax rate is probably 28% or 32% or something. My effective federal rate is, I'm sure, sub-20%, but every additional dollar I make is taxed at that top rate.

I don't need billionaires to be taxed at 70% or have a wealth tax. I just want people to pay the tax they're supposed to pay. I don't want loopholes where someone made $100m through cattle future derivatives that have a carve-out when implemented in cities in farm states with populations of under 10,000, so they pay 0%.

Same for corporations. Fine, you write of x,y,z. But at some point if you're making more money than ever you shouldn't be paying less tax than ever, let alone $0. The solution, in my mind, is not to soak them for being successful. The solution is to find each and every loophole they're exploiting, and tear them the hell up.

Re: Netflix Posted Biggest-Ever Profit in 2018 and Paid $0 in Income Taxes

#280

Post by andrewla » Wed, Feb 06, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

PurpleBoxDragon wrote: post #261

SilasX wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is that simple (in the sense of the parent's post): you need to know the specifics of why they were paying no taxes. If, as in the comment, they were carrying over losses, then there's nothing really objectionable. You lost $10 million last year. You profited $10 million this year. Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. Did they get a specific exemption against the public interest that no one else got?…

>Over a reasonable horizon, you weren't profitable. The average worker isn't allowed to do that even when they lose money in a given year. Why is it so naturally assumed to be acceptable for a business to do it? Maybe the time is to just remove the loopholes in general from both business and personal income taxes.

Business taxes and personal taxes are different. Businesses pay taxes on income, while individuals pay taxes on revenue.

The differences are significant enough that any sort of parallel like this does not hold a lot of value. Yes, it might make sense to disallow this for corporations, but the justification seems reasonable -- it's not a loophole that allows corporations to take home huge amounts of money without paying taxes, it just allows them to deal with time horizons longer than one year. As it is, a gain in the second half of the first month of the year can be offset by a loss in the first half of the first month of the year, just because of reporting frequency.