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What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

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Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#61

Post by Brakenshire »

QasimK wrote: post #11
foxhop wrote: post #4

Personally I love the heat that an incondecent bulb emits, I can actually keep my hands warm on my keyboard while lowering my room heat. 75 watt bulb with heat versus a 3000 watt space heater.

Depending on where you live, the energy “inefficiency” of a light bulb is no such thing. In the UK, for example, during winter (and spring and autumn) the heating is appreciated! However, it is 2-3x more costly than using gas central heating. (However however something something whole house vs room-specific heating.) In the summer, it’s a complete waste though. Directed infrared heating panels may be the most efficie…

It's also heating the ceiling, which will reduce the efficiency further.

It's a straightforward issue of separation of concerns, there are some occasions where you want heating and lighting always tied together, but they are niche. Almost everywhere in the world you have large periods of the day or year when you want lighting without heat.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#62

Post by coldacid »

vanderZwan wrote: post #7

> Plus, they’ll more than pay for themselves in electricity savings compared to the old, inefficient LED bulbs they replaced. Sure, eventually, but without further context this obsession with light bulbs always sounds a little bit penny wise and pound foolish to me. The relative cost of lighting on the monthly electricity bill is tiny so those savings are pretty small. Getting a more efficient fridge, washing machine…

Given the starting "plus" of that sentence, it's obvious that the author's concern isn't so much the energy savings of the newer bulbs over the older ones, but the improved quality of light over the now aged bulbs. With that much yellowing on the older bulbs and a per-bulb price only 1/9th of what it used to be, I'd replace them too without a damn about the electricity savings -- that they would lead to any savings at all would be a bonus.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#63

Post by umvi »

spicymaki wrote: post #56
umvi wrote: post #37

This makes me wonder if we shouldn't have an AC and DC circuits in the house. I mean, it could be all AC coming in, but at the box it splits into (at least) two different circuits (an AC one and a DC one). AC circuit would still be used for things that have motors, but everything else uses DC. Imagine how simple LED lighting could be on a DC circuit. Just an LED and resistor. I only took a few electrical engineering…

To convert from AC to DC you need a transformer and a rectifier and there will be energy loss during the conversion.

Right, but my question is would it be better to do the conversion once for the entire house or to make every single device bundle in its own transformer and rectifier as we are currently doing?

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#64

Post by Someone1234 »

Steltek wrote: post #33
crispyambulance wrote: post #23

I also have been disappointed with LED "bulbs". They get too damn hot in recessed fixtures but NOT because of the LED's. It's all because of the shitty power converter embedded deep inside the bulb getting too hot and failing. The industry has necessarily had to retrofit to where incandescent bulbs are supposed to go. I think that we'll start to see improvements in this area as people move away from "screw-in bulb" a…

Every so often, I come back to the "I should have DC power on demand in my house!" until I'm reminded that DC power loss over a distance can hurt bad, even 48VDC telecom power. Perhaps USB-C PD might help? USB power adapters are compact and PD offers standard, useful high power DC. If the adapters become ubiquitous, you could see "USB-C lightbulbs".

Slight tangent but "in-building DC" exists, and is rapidly gaining popularity but not via the medium many assumed: Power Over Ethernet.

You can buy PoE LED light fixtures now, which are both powered and controlled over ethernet. You buy a single PoE switch, run some low voltage Cat6, and you can power an entire floor's worth of lighting.

EEPoE (Energy Efficient PoE) offers more efficient PoE too which claims up to 94% efficiency.

Definitely a space to watch. Particularly as the cost savings of running low voltage Ethernet cable compared to high voltage electrical cable (110v) are substantial.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#65

Post by coldacid »

ars wrote: post #39
vanderZwan wrote: post #7

> Plus, they’ll more than pay for themselves in electricity savings compared to the old, inefficient LED bulbs they replaced. Sure, eventually, but without further context this obsession with light bulbs always sounds a little bit penny wise and pound foolish to me. The relative cost of lighting on the monthly electricity bill is tiny so those savings are pretty small. Getting a more efficient fridge, washing machine…

And why is he comparing to Incandescent anyway? He should be comparing to CFL, and against CFL LED bulbs are rather poor - more expensive, same energy efficiency, same life. Why do it? I have LEDs in my house, but only because my local utility pays for most of them. If not for that I'd use only CFL's - they are cheaper, and just as good.

Read again. He's comparing newer LED bulbs to the older, yellowed ones he was already using.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#66

Post by nine_k »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #27
vanderZwan wrote: post #7

> Plus, they’ll more than pay for themselves in electricity savings compared to the old, inefficient LED bulbs they replaced. Sure, eventually, but without further context this obsession with light bulbs always sounds a little bit penny wise and pound foolish to me. The relative cost of lighting on the monthly electricity bill is tiny so those savings are pretty small. Getting a more efficient fridge, washing machine…

> The relative cost of lighting on the monthly electricity bill is tiny so those savings are pretty small. Getting a more efficient fridge, washing machine, TV or (in our profession) computer typically has a much bigger effect on electricity expenses. And that is assuming your heating and cooking is done with gas. The switch from using tiny space heaters for light to using LEDs that consume a tenth of the power was a…

This is correct.

I just thought that "everybody" has switched to CFLs 10 years ago, when they became decent.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#67

Post by darkpuma »

QasimK wrote: post #11
foxhop wrote: post #4

Personally I love the heat that an incondecent bulb emits, I can actually keep my hands warm on my keyboard while lowering my room heat. 75 watt bulb with heat versus a 3000 watt space heater.

Depending on where you live, the energy “inefficiency” of a light bulb is no such thing. In the UK, for example, during winter (and spring and autumn) the heating is appreciated! However, it is 2-3x more costly than using gas central heating. (However however something something whole house vs room-specific heating.) In the summer, it’s a complete waste though. Directed infrared heating panels may be the most efficie…

Electric powered heat pumps (essentially air conditioners run in reverse) can have considerably greater efficiency than electrical resistance heaters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pump#Performance_consider...

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#68

Post by umvi »

ars wrote: post #45
umvi wrote: post #37

This makes me wonder if we shouldn't have an AC and DC circuits in the house. I mean, it could be all AC coming in, but at the box it splits into (at least) two different circuits (an AC one and a DC one). AC circuit would still be used for things that have motors, but everything else uses DC. Imagine how simple LED lighting could be on a DC circuit. Just an LED and resistor. I only took a few electrical engineering…

It would have to be high voltage DC. Low voltage just can't send enough power - you need wires as thick as garden hoses. High voltage DC is not useful for the things people use.

It seems like an efficient house would at least want a "lighting circuit" where you have a single transformer/rectifier/controller driving a bunch of LEDs all throughout your house. That type of lighting scheme seems like it could last decades if you use quality LEDs.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#69

Post by phkahler »

umvi wrote: post #37

This makes me wonder if we shouldn't have an AC and DC circuits in the house. I mean, it could be all AC coming in, but at the box it splits into (at least) two different circuits (an AC one and a DC one). AC circuit would still be used for things that have motors, but everything else uses DC. Imagine how simple LED lighting could be on a DC circuit. Just an LED and resistor. I only took a few electrical engineering…

Having an AC to DC converter at the mains to your house would be great. Using a reasonably safe 48V DC in the home seems reasonable. Modern high efficiency motor driven appliances all use internal AC->DC converters and a 3-phase DC->AC driver anyway. I'm still on the fence about what the DC voltage should be - upwards of 60-80 are still nice and require less current for a given load but you don't want your PC and TV to need too many stages to get low voltage.

It would be nice if some people got together and wrote a standard for DC powered homes. Preferably without a bunch of patented stuff included in the standard. Then all the pieces could be produced by various industry players and we could switch.

Re: What Happened to the 100000 Hour LED Bulbs?

#70

Post by setquk »

baybal2 wrote: post #20
setquk wrote: post #12

I've taken every single LED bulb that has failed on me to pieces and it's always the same failure mode. The heatsink compound isn't applied properly to the back of the LED board. The LEDs immediately in the gaps smoke out. Alas this isn't a problem. If a lightbulb goes, Amazon send me a new one out now free of charge and tell me to throw the old one in the trash. This is one manufacturer, prevalent on Amazon, the Lon…

Do not buy "bulbs," they are hopeless. Just buy a whole fixture with a big aluminium PCB and directly bonded chips.

Honestly I can't be bothered to replace the fixtures.

Edit: looking at the price of fixtures, the economic argument is poor as well.

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