Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

news.ycombinator.com

91–100 of 132 posts

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#92
For me, it was taking time for some self-motivated projects. I am really only happy if I a planning/designing/building something. The way I cure burnout is to stop working on other people's priorities, and take on a challenging project that is entirely self-motivated. An achievable dream, that a few weeks of full time effort (with time off to sleep and eat well) will make happen.

For my first episode of burnout, I took some time off and built the ham radio antenna system that I had wanted for a while. Which involved some engineering planning, some construction planning (schedule the backhoe, schedule the concrete, schedule friends for a tower raising party, planning the after-antenna-raising BBQ party...), and lots of physical work out in the sun. It was an achievable dream, and entirely about scratching my own itch for fun.

For me, just "relaxing on the beach" never works, whether I am burned out or not. I need to be planning/designing/building. YMMV.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#94
post #41
post #20

Do we really have to Ask HN this every few days?

It's almost as if the audience of this site participates in an incredibly toxic work culture and we're hearing regular cries for help from the victims of it.

Burnout is real. I was promoted from an entry level to senior level engineer in three years at one of the top tech companies. My compensation is great, and I’m saving heavily. Also, I’m exhausted. As in... I’m wondering what to do next with my life and work. Burn out is an understatement. I don’t talk to my spouse about this because this person has a lot of stuff to deal with, and my family relationships have wined down after they found out what I get paid and basically just wanted me to hand over everything because they believe they are entitled to it. So who do you turn to? It doesn’t solve my problems but it at least helps reading threads like this to see others perspectives.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#95
Sleep. I took a day off from work to just sleep. If you can take a day off for being snotty-nose sick, you can take a day off for being mentally sick. Burnout is depression and it's a real disease.

Throwing away my current TODO list, without evaluation. The important things will resurface. The unimportant things were too much psychic baggage.

That's about it. Everything else flows from there.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#96
These titles helped me a a lot. The breathing technique was transformative. I've given that one out to a myriad of people.

https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Performance-Elevate-Burnout-Scie...

https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Power-Breath-Techniques-Conce...

Also, maybe do some reading on the negative effects of perfectionism.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#97
post #16

One thing is to get married

In a word, no. If one thinks that marriage will simplify life and reduce stresses, well, I have some bad news for you. Don't get me wrong -- marriage is/can-be wonderful, but you owe it to your partner to bring your mentally-healthy self to the table, not to burden someone else with your problems because new challenges will result. Life is struggle, and having someone to lean on is wonderful.

I agree. Marriage brings new stresses, but you shouldn't think that someone else will fix you if you're broken.

I like what one of my coworkers said: Marriage can bring higher highs and lower lows, but the average is still better.

Of course, all of that is nullified if you both don't have the commitment and put in the effort to make it work.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#98
Most burnout is the result of a physiological phenomenon known colloquially as the "coolidge effect"- aka NOVELTY.

All animals appear to be hard wired to respond well to interesting and new environments. The "coolidge effect" has traditionally been studied through the lens of sexual reproduction. It explains why a rat, presented with the same female, will lose interest with her over time. But, a rat presented with a new female every hour, will have sex until he is physically unable to move.

You lack novelty, as almost all jobs do. The trick for you is to abstract this primal drive for novelty, into a higher order function. You need to somehow trick yourself into finding your work novel and interesting.

One example that may work for you is TDD. TDD establishes an abstract system of work + reward.

A more advanced strategy is to find a way to STOP generalizing your work. If you work in programming for example... you will find that over the years, all problems begin to look the same. Sure maybe X is Y this time, and maybe you're storing it in this database, not that one, but the generic problem you're solving looks exactly like the problem you solved a week, a month, a year ago. The female rat in your cage, is the same rat.

What you must do is never look at your work that way. Instead, dig deeper into each problem. Dig, dig, dig. Find the novelty in each solution you produce. Make it a habit to never just solve the problem. Instead, become an expert in the solution of that problem - understand it fully.

I once worked with an excellent iOS developer who not only solved every task he was given, but he took it upon himself to become an expert in UI design. He wasn't content just implementing the UI, he wanted to understand state of the art design and apply that to his work.

This all assumes that your burnout isn't SO severe that you can't even start your work most days. If you're already to that level of burnout, then you need to start with just getting your life back on the rails. ROUTINE. Add rigid structure to your day. Use google calendar to map our your "ideal day", then shoot to achieve it every day. Enable notifications for Google Calendar, to remind yourself where you should be throughout the day. Here's an example:

6:00 AM - Wake up, warm tea, breakfast.

6:30 AM - Shower, get dressed, shave.

7:00 AM - WORK SESSION 1

9:00 AM - Break. Light exercise. Coffee?

9:30 AM - WORK SESSION 2

10:30 AM - Break. Get outside. Drink some water.

11:00 AM - WORK SESSION 3

1:00 PM - Lunch. Get outside. Do some light exercise. Read the news.

3:00 PM - WORK SESSION 4

5:00 PM - Break. Personal development time. Read. Build. Play an instrument. Workout. Paint a painting. Work on side project.

7:00 PM - Dinner.

8:00 PM - Relax. Watch TV with family. Play a game.

10:00 PM - Get ready for bed.

10:30 PM - In bed

11:00 PM - Asleep.

It's important to remember this is just an "ideal day". You shouldn't expect to always hit it. Modify it to your liking, and use it as a guide.

Good luck. If you're like me, you'll struggle with burnout probably your entire life. I will probably never dive into programming tasks like I did when I was first starting out. But that's not the goal. The goal is to not burnout, and to enjoy my work every day, which I do.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#99
> places a lot of self-worth in the quality of his work ...

I felt exactly the same way, but over the years I've learned that it's a little more complicated for me. For context, I'm a Senior (Blah Blah Blah) ... 2 decades making stuff with code.

I place a lot of demands on myself regarding the quality of my work.

I place a lot of my own self-worth on the value of my work.

Burnout happens when my work has no value (to me and/or anyone else) any longer. This can be for many reasons, but it's typically because I've recognized that the thing that I'm working on either serves no good purpose, or simply serves no purpose at all. Less frequently, it's because I've reached the end of what I can do/learn -- i.e. that rare occasion where you can go to your boss and say "I'm done, I've finished all of my work" and you literally mean it. It runs. There are no more features. Yeah, I can refactor it another hundred times, but there's literally no reason for me to be here any longer unless I want to make-work myself[0] into a new reason for being here like I did the last 30-or-so times.

On the demand side -- I can be a bit nuts about doing things right. I've been around the block -- "best" and "practice" aren't meant ironically -- there are times it is "correct" to break practice in favor of performance, working around a leaky abstractions, actual "correctness" of the outcome requires it. There are times it is "correct" to agonize over architecture details, calculate pricing to the penny/hour/minute). But sometimes that agonizing is being done because if it weren't, there'd be no reason to write the thing in the first place.

Your last paragraph hints at something a lot bigger going on in your life, so without details I can't help you terribly well except to say:

(1) Don't believe that the situation you've gotten yourself into is unique -- you are not the first to go through it, you won't be the last[0]. There's a solution. It may be "hard" but "hard" problems but I'm guessing if you frequent here you have a few good strategies for breaking down/solving hard problems. If not, well, that's basically the gist of it.

(2) Is all of this hinting that maybe "getting through" burning out might be best done by making a change to whatever the "big thing" is that burned you out? For me, I was in a systems job when I wanted to be writing software. So I scripted my job out of existence and writing web-based intranet software became my job (early 00s) within a year and a half.

(3) Life, necessarily, involves trials/suffering. My brain is naturally wired up to resist and fear any major change (e.g. changing schools when I was young, changing jobs/careers as an adult) that comes with a large amount of unknowns. The only thing that works for me is remembering that every single other past, major, change -- including the ones that went terribly -- were all somewhere in the range of "far less awful than I thought" to "incredible things that I regret not doing sooner".

(4) Be thankful. This is not meant as "First World Shaming" (I have no idea where you live, so there's that!). I can't speak to you, but for me, even at the worst times there has been plenty of good standing right in front of me. At some point I realize I'm actively choosing to be miserable and I either (a) condition myself to focus on everything/everyone that I love in my life or (b) solve whatever it is that is causing me to choose to be miserable. But from that point forward, I actively attack any self-pity with a reminder that I am now actively working toward solving that problem, so I can choose to focus on how great things are going to be when I have completed executing my plan.

Nope, it doesn't always work. Most of that advice would fall into things that self-help books peddle pretty hard but who's success is limited to that of the author of the book (and most of the time, probably not even that), but I wish you well and hope you emerge victorious!

[0] There was a great song around 07-08 timeframe "This too shall pass" who's music video went viral. I loved it because I was going through some awful stuff at the time and sometimes a simple phrase can calm your mind, but I really appreciated the video. It was a room-sized Goldberg setup that ran the length of the song. The metaphor worked. There are quiet moments, loud moments, and a lot of mess. The worst experience of my entire life made the best part of my life as it is now, possible.

Re: Ask HN: How are you getting through (and back from) burning out?

#100

Just like the other comments here I'd suggest focusing on mindset and health. For mindset, I'd recommend looking at stoicism such as with "A guide to the good life." In particular, the parts about accepting reality as it is, sort of like the serenity prayer. I like to think that I go into work with the mindset of giving 100% and should therefore not feel dejected by negative occurances. If I'm not fit for a task, tha…

Also, the book "Mindset".
Post reply on HN